Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by armygirl, Jan 28, 2009.
Yep. blank spaces was ultimately the better choice.
Armygirl is channelling the ghosts of Buddahfan...
There you go...leave it up to the sly one. In most serious negotiations that I have been involved in, the Plan B is your ultimate goal. It never starts out that way. Make no mistake, the tease is the opening crack and very powerful. Everyone at the table knows that they will eventually get to their Plan B. It is the GMs ultimate circus act, with the main juggler balancing the spinning outcome of 5-8 plates.
My question to you: which plates are slowing down and demanding too much of your attention?
7. Memo over Sheed? Who contributed more to the Championship? And who was going to give us the better chance of winning another? NO ONE at the time criticsed Joe for this move, so I don't see why he should be criticised for it now.
6. Chicago's offer to Ben was strictly contingent on the signing being outright - no trades involved. They wanted us, a conference rival, to lose Ben without compensation. Nothing could have changed this except the foresight that Ben was going to leave, a la Shaq leaving the Magic, in which Joe should have traded him before the deadline. Anyone here call this (and I mean not just Ben leaving, but him leaving without compensation)?
5. When you are not competing for the EC, let alone a place in the Finals, trading an aging and ego-maniacal star with a long term deal for a big fat expiring contract is a NO BRAINER. What Joe accomplishes with the contract or cap space is a different matter.
4. Who should have he replaced Flip with? Although I do agree that the Flipper was a questionable hire to begin with.
3. Who should have he hired instead of MC? I like JVG, but I suspect that behind closed he has been banned by Mister Stern for those ref comments, so he does not count. So Who?
2. LB was getting paid a fortune. Easy to say since it was not your money funding his indefility.
1. Yeah he botched that one. But he turned Darko into the pick that netted Stuckey. Yes, we should have taken Wade, but most GM's would have passed on him, especially if they had the backcourt we had. Anyone here predict Wade's rise to super stardom?
Joe is not perfect (what GM is?). But be fair if you are going to start critiquing his decisions.
I would have to say plate #3, plate #5, and plate #6.
Mine too. They do have that uncertain wobble.
As I recall Dumars tried to sign and trade for Chandler.
If someone told us back in 05 that we would not win another championship then I am sure different moves would have been made. Can't really fault him for sticking with the core as long as he did. Although Ben was a big part of it and as it turns out his contract would have ended in 2010 - when Dumars wants all that cap money.
On Okur - If you want a center to bomb 3's then Okur is better at it and cheaper.
Joe did want Chandler in return, but Chicago already had an agreement in place to trade him to NO for PJ Brown's expiring contract. In doing so, they would have Ben, Detroit would not receive a single asset in return for the loss, the Krause era would officially be over with the trade of Chandler, and they would have cap space in return. So a trade was never ever going to be possible simply because Paxson had no motivation to make it happen.
As for Memo, at the time it was either Sheed or Memo. I recall that Memo had no Bird rights due to where he was selected in the draft (same thing as with the Warriors and Agent Zero, which has since been revised). So we could only sign one of them.
As perfectly stated by Max, if we knew no more Championships were a comin', then maybe Joe would have signed Memo instead, and probably would have brought in someone other than Flip too, most likely an younger inexperienced coach on the cheap (sound like anyone u know?). I am sure that would have went down well at the time.
Speaking of Memo, did anyone else notice during the celebrations after the final game against the Lakers, everyone was partying it up together, except Memo, who looked like an out of place tall Turkish dude who accidentally crashed the wrong party? That and he could not finish at the rim to save his Baklava all throughout his Pistons career. I like Memo, but I would never have chosen him over Sheed. Based on what I saw then, the players would have attempted a coup, and we would have had lots of blown point blank layups.
It was assumed that we would win another one or two just like the Spurs. In other words I think Dumars and Mr. D thought the core could just win-baby-win with whomever coached it (except Laims) and whatever scrubs that were hanging out on the bench for support......especially when four of them showed up at the all-star game and got on the floor together..
As much as I defend many of Joe's decisions (they mostly make sense to me), I could not help but feel that a major obstacle in the way of a second or third championship was a pad lock on Mr D's checkbook. It was clear that remaining under the cap was a bid deal to management/ownership. I agree with Joe's logic that there is no correlation between spending and championships (witness the recent knicks, and Sheed's Blazers, and the Drexler's Blazers before them), but no doubt some more depth on the bench may have made all the difference.
I'd only move him for 2 pieces,
1 already expiring piece ~ 10 mill
1 guy worth about 10 mill who's making about 10 mill (length of contract a non issue)
We need to bring AI off the bench if/when Rip is healthy.
AI needs to run the show and energy guys play better around him.
Rip needs 'sets' and needs familiarity... Play him with the starters... I don't see the difficulty here. Unless it was a spoken deal that he was guaranteed to start or something.
Else go back to bringing Stuckey off the bench but play him the same mins as now.
I could not more strongly agree.
Even just going slightly over the cap a couple of the last 5 seasons (like the Spurs did) might have been all we needed.
Just an example here... Overpay for a Posey type guy, a real legit guy instead of underpay for an Arvis.
Also the Darko whiff, although Turned into Stuckey doesn't fit chronologically with that championship ready team.
Darko's pick should have been ready to go bascially his second season, we aren't getting anything "championship level" out of that pick until now when the rest of that core is gone or way beyond their primes.
Pistons really only have 1 or 2 guys actually in their primes right now, Tay and Rip who is at the end of his prime.
Who the heck is going to take's AI 20 mil....???????
If anything they rather trade for Sheed and his 12 mil expiring. Less to give up. Unless you have a Pau Gasol.
So now it's going to be...
Chauncey/Samb for ??????????????????
It better be someone good.
I'm willing to gamble on Elton Brand and a backup point forward for Iverson.
If Brand performs somewhat close to his career numbers we would have a starter for this and the upcoming few seasons who would compliment Rasheed Wallace in the front line. Better yet, we would go back to our original four guys in Stuckey/Hamilton/Prince/Wallace with a former All Star in Brand in the 4 or 5 spot. This is an upgrade from Amir Johnson and Kwame Brown in the starting spot at the 5. Nothing against Amir, who has shown great athleticsm but seems to lack fundementals when on both offense and defense.
Would Philadelphia be interested in bring back their icon, in Iverson?
Philly has no interest in bringing AI back and messing with a good thing.
Motown has no interest in Elton Brand and his history of injuries and long-term big dollar contract.
A good idea is to start with which teams are realistic trading partners, either before the deadline, or more likely during the off season, sign and trade or via trade outright given all of our cap space:
+ Sterling, not having gotten the results for all his new found big spending, will no doubt be itching to slash payroll.
- Dunleavy will not give up a good asset cheaply (by good asset I mean the young Kaman, not grandpa Camby).
Anyone else got some ideas? I will try to add another team or two later.
Separate names with a comma.