Away New York Knicks Sunday Nov 25 2012

Discussion in 'November 2012' started by roscoe36, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. del

    del Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Not like Maxiell did any better than Monroe would have. At least with Drummond out there, there is shot altering behind Monroe, making Melo think twice about driving past. If fouls became an issue, then this would need a re-think (and it did seem NY was getting the benefit on both ends mostly).


    You really think Woodson would have put Carmelo on Drummond?!

    Say he did then. Chandler on Monroe also pulls Chandler away from the basket opening the lane - put the ball in Monroe's hands and you have one of our best passers being able to get the ball by their biggest defender out on the elbow with a pass. Not a bad result if you ask me when the help D on a cutting Singler, BK, Prince is Melo coming off Drummond.

    Also you'd think Drummond would at least have the ability to back down someone of Melo's size and limited defensive ability. He doesn't have to score either as help D would likely come the closer he gets to the basket and there's an outlet pass to an open Singler/BK.

    And If no help comes, it's not a stretch to think Drummond has the ability to pick up the ball and go over Melo to the basket from a couple feet out. We have seen him do a couple of up and under shots too.

    I may have made that a little simplistic, but when it comes down to it there is something which is getting constantly asked - when it was all as bad as it was, where is the harm in trying it?!
  2. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Hey Lee, isn't this like the Sheed/ Amir front court that worked so well but the coach kept finding ways to wreck it ?
    And just rubbing our face in it.
  3. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Just think how screwed we would be if they put Felton at the PF position.
    dba and coynejeremy like this.
  4. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    There are (at least) two assumptions you have to make for this to make sense. First is that limiting Drummond's minutes would allow us to field a more competitive lineup due to matchups. I'm pretty sure we could just play 4 on 5 instead of subbing Drummond in and not have much of a dropoff in the results from our current starting lineup.

    The other assumption you have to make is to equate Drummond's offensive ability to Ben Wallace's (i.e. almost zero). This is totally ridiculous. Ben was a career 47% FG shooter. Remember the years when LB would try to get Ben going on offense by making it a point to feed him the ball? He still only shot 42% and 45% those years. Your position is not credible when you have to make this comparison.
  5. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Andre Drummond's FT% in college was 53%, I don't really consider that a different level than Ben Wallace's 47%.
  6. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Ben shot 37% at the FT line in college, so he improved quite a bit in the NBA. Assuming Drummond will make the same bump of 10%, that will jolt him up to around 63%.
  7. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    63% is a "Shaq in his prime" number.
  8. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    All I'm really trying to say is that it's not as simple as "a) Drummond needs to develop and b) Drummond is better than Maxiell." Basketball, as we all know, is like jazz. You can't just insert player A into lineup spot A and expect that player to have the same (or similar) results that they have in lineup spot B. Do I think the team would be better with Drummond starting? Yeah, I do feel that, although it's blatantly clear that Drummond does some very strange things that are indicative of his lack of experience. But I'm not there day in and day out so I'm trying to rationalize why Frank believes otherwise. Nobody is going to buy into the "you have to earn your playing time" argument (even though it makes a great deal of sense), because people already have their opinions on that. My hope is that everyone just calms down and recognizes that it's not as obvious as everyone thinks and that things are far more complicated than we fans want to make them.
    brofmfa and round like this.
  9. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I like this post. Totally agree.
  10. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Pairing Drummond and Monroe in itself does not do much good if you surround them with the wrong players otherwise. But, there have been times this season when the two have played at the same time, with 3 players that can also play, and the team has rocked on both ends of the floor. In studying film, you know, watching it all in slow motion rather than assume anything, you see our perimeter defense pops out to where it should be for one - and two, yes, Monroe and Drummond do indeed clog the lane, because the other team must collapse in to stop these two from scoring, so you basically end up with around 8 guys near the basket - with two good shooters on the perimeter, our shooters, knocking down uncontested triple tries at a high clip. Yes, it works. Forget the stats for a moment, go study the same film I am studying, and see if you don't agree.
  11. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Here are some recent quotes from LF that let us into his head a bit:
    Last week, we would have assumed that Frank had made a determination from practice that CV wasn't good enough. Now, he's publicly stating that he's a good player, but that our team is so loaded that it is hard to find minutes for him (over a two year span even though we've basically been in last place and CV was one of JD's big FA signings).

    I used to jump to conclusions when guys weren't playing, but I guess it doesn't mean that they won't be inserted into the starting lineup tomorrow and it doesn't mean that Frank won't take credit for it when it works better than the current lineup.

    Why did it take him so long to bring Stuckey off the bench? Stuck was playing so poorly that he was embarrassed and opted out.

    How do we know that Kenglish and Middleton aren't as talented as Singler?
  12. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    It seems like the Pistons would be best served to have Drummond, Monroe and Knight on the floor together as much as possible. They seem to resist this. I would rather have this group going together taking bad shots over the guaranteed losers they are playing now.

    They could still play Singler. Play Stuckey as a backup point (A real bargain!). Tay, Max, Maggette, Chuckles gets them to 9. Break the Will Bynum glass in case of emergency.

    Any game where Drummond only plays 14 minutes and he wasn't ejected or fouled out is a loss. The same is true for the 3 of these guys playing together.
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  13. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I think you're missing Pistons0809 tongue-in-cheek humor. He never breaks character.
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  14. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Sounds like they're trying to raise his trade value. "He's so awesome, but it's a shame that he doesn't get an opportunity to shine in our system."
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  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I really hope that is true. It would really be so easy to do. We have always known that he can post numbers. So dumb to kill the market value of your own player when you could have just immediately showcased him and traded him when you realized it wasn't what you were looking for.
    linwood likes this.

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