Next Season's Roster After The Summer of Lebron

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by tads, May 8, 2010.

  1. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    I wasn't really talking three point shooting. Crawford's eFG is inflated because he takes so many more threes than Stuckey does. He is still a worse than league average three point shooter... and his career field goal % is over a half a point worse than Stuckey's.

    You can argue he has a better shot, but Jamal Crawford is hardly the model for jump shooting consistency.
     
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    There are lots of things Jamal Crawford is not. He is not a great defender or rebounder.

    But he is known for having a jump shot.
     
  3. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    Crawford had a much more efficient year shooting the ball than he had ever previously had, but I think he's always been known as a guy with a streaky jump shot... and a guy who could get really hot at times and make near impossible shots.

    But no one is mistaking him for Ray Allen either.
     
  4. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    The bar for Crawford in this discussion is not Ray Allen, any more than the bar for Rodney Stuckey is Rajon Rondo.

    We're talking about Stuckey vs. Crawford as a shooter. Crawford is a better shooter.

    Statistically, empirically, politically, religiously, emotionally, scientifically and spiritually.
     
  5. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    Well, when you look at Crawford's shooting percentages his first four years in the league, it wouldn't be a stretch to think that Stuckey couldn't end up being at least as good of a shooter (not that it's saying a whole lot, Crawford is not a good shooter).

    But, of course, according to most on these boards, Stuckey isn't even a decent enough player to be in the league at all, so a rather pointless discussion on my part. My bad.
     
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    But that was not the discussion. It's like bringing Ray Allen into it. It's irrelevant to the discussion we are having.

    Can you imagine if every time we talked about Ben, someone set the baseline at Wilt Chamberlain when bringing up a center who can actually post up and hit his free throws?

    Some people like Stuckey too much, some people like him too little. The truth usually lies in moderation. I find what other people think is generally unimportant unless it conflicts with a view I will not re-examine, and we ALL make that mistake.

    Personally, I think Stuckey is a mediocre point guard. I have yielded many times that he is a serviceable two guard. I think that is a reasonable view that maybe even some NBA GMs agree with. It doesn't make me right, but I certainly don't feel like my perspective, or some of the very intelligent perspectives presented on this board (including the ones I don't agree with) are extreme or completely unbalanced.

    There is no need to turn sour when people disagree with you. It doesn't enhance your argument.
     
  7. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    I've been a big Stuckey supporter. I do admit to doubts creeping into my mind about him, and think that this season will be huge for him. This will be the first time he's had the same head coach 2 seasons in a row. He's playing on a hugely dysfunctional team going through massive transitions, and dealing with ridiculous injuries.

    That said, he was very easily and obviously the best player on our team last season.

    He does have great potential, so let's see if he steps up his game this year. My doubts about him are can he play the 1 in our system, will he become a significantly better shooter, and will he stop deferring and turn this into his team - wrestling that mantel away from Rip and Tay, two players who really shouldn't be our team leaders (they slow the game down way too much - our team needs to be faster paced,because the young talent on the team is much better in that mode).

    As for him playing the 1, I think people who say he can't are all wet. Our system is not about a 1 playing like Chris Paul or Steve Nash. We don't have a system where one guy can or should dominate the ball like they do. As Joe D keeps saying, that view of what a PG is in our league is about 20 years out-moded.
     
  8. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    From what Joe has said we know why he likes Stuckey:

    The characteristics Joe Dumars wants in players explains his faith in Rodney Stuckey | MLive.com


    He is apparently not as concerned about assists as he is taking it to the hoop. Might be why Rodney always puts his blinders on and head down and bulls his way to the basket. The boss likes it that way.
     
  9. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    It's funny you say that because to me Joe's vision of how the point position should be handled is based on his playing days on the Piston title teams some 20 years ago.
     
  10. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    I'm guessing Joe has seen and acknowledged that the game has changed. Hell, he won a championship here without a pure PG: Billups.
     
  11. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Crawford may be a better shooter, but Stuckey is the better player. I'd rather have Stuckey on the team than Crawford any day.

    Admitting someone else is better than Stuckey in a specific category isn't a put down on Stuckey.
     
  12. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    That's the mindset of a GM that doesn't have a great PG. The only way you can be successful in this league without a great PG is if you have a stud. If you look at the rosters of teams that have been successful in the playoffs in the past 10 years, you always see either a very good PG or a superstar. You can buy into that BS about the PG role having changed if you have someone the caliber of Kobe or Jordan on your roster. Otherwise, it's nothing but burying your head in the sand.

    Joe keeps saying that, but if the opportunity to sign Deron Williams or CP3 came up, he wouldn't blink an eye.
     
  13. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    Nobody would blink about picking ANY superstar at any position, especially a superstar PG or C.

    But he did win a championship with Billups, and he's NOT a classic PG.
     
  14. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Billups is an elite modern PG. He is not a classic point, but he is an elite PG in this NBA. Stuckey is neither the classic or modern versions. He is playing out of position IMO. He just doesn't have the vision or background at this time to play what is arguably the toughest position mentally.

    And it's not that he is dumb. It's that he doesn't have 8 years of being a passer before coming to the NBA. Even in college, he was a bull it to the hoop scorer, and while he might develop a J, and some great court vision, he doesn't have it now.

    It's sorta like Joe drafting and building the team around the hope that JJ becomes Dirk Nowitzki. It has been a long time since Joe did something positive as a GM that I didn't consider lucky. Probably going back to signing Dice.
     
  15. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    The Stuckey debate is what it is, nobody is going to move from their positions this off season. But I will add one last jab: I am in no way comfortable with Rodney Stuckey being the starting PG for this team. I'd be overjoyed if Joe could get us a real PG and Rodney was coming off the bench giving us 15ppg in about 25-28mpg.

    Go look at the stats for JJ last season and compare them with Dirks. That being said JJ was 22 when he came into the league while Dirk was only 19 or 20. By the time Dirk was 22 (in his 3rd year), the stat comparison ends, but if JJ is putting up Dirk like numbers in his 3rd year (21.8ppg / 9.2rpg / 3% of .387 / .474fg%)......well Joe will be one lucky son of a gun.
     
  16. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    OK folks, don't laugh, but with the prior 2 statements in mind, would you trade Rip for.........(GULP) Gilbert Arenas...................I would
    Gilbert isn't a classic PG either, but he's an elite PG (with something to prove and a chip on his shoulder), in 32 games where he struggled he still avg'd 22pts/7asts and shot 41% from2 and 35% from3.
     
  17. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    DraftExpressProfile: Rajon Rondo, Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook
     
  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    That wasn't my point Lin.

    Stuckey is a much better FT and jump shooter than Rondo. The problem is, Rondo does almost everything else better.
     
  19. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    I know it wasn't your point, I was baiting you a little bit.

    I guess my point is that Rondo had some serious flaws entering the league, and really didn't put his game together until he was several years in and playing on a team with 3 HOF's. His first two years, he played next to Delonte West and Wally Z. With the Pistons roster turnovers and injuries, I'm not sure that Stuckey is doing much better teamate wise than West and Wally. Put a few good players on this team who can finish or can a jumpshot, and Stuckey might look much better.
     
  20. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    My point was that comparing Stuckey to Rondo was as irrelevant as comparing Crawford to Ray Allen, so it's not really baiting.



    PS, Tay and Rip are West and Wally?
     

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