Maybe Iverson and Tay were West and Wally. I guess for me it's really hard to pick out one or two players that need to go, because the entire Pistons team is so terrible together. Ben Gordon looks terrible, although I know he isn't. Rip put up some big number games last year, but we still won less than 30 total.
This is an interesting argument because in 08-09 there were clearly too many nasty, accomplished veterans getting in Rodney's way. Last year he topped that by simultaneously being hindered both by bad teammates and by Rip and Tay's veteran guile. I'm not sure that has ever happened to anyone not named Allen Iverson before. It may have taken Rondo some time to put his game together, but from the moment he stepped on the court he showed himself to possess rare speed and quickness that would allow him to distinguish himself from his competition. I do not see the same traits in Stuckey. There is zero chance that Stuckey could play the minutes that Rondo has played this year in the playoffs.
Rondo just played his 4th season. In his 2nd season he was the starting PG for a championship team, can he shoot, NO! Can he run the hell out of the point HELL YEAH he can!! After Rondo's 3rd year he signed a $55M contract extension before hitting the free agent market, this is par for the course for young players who GM's know will be legit stars and ballers in this league, well Rodney just finished his 3rd year, and nobody in the org is breaking their neck to offer him an extension so that he doesn't hit the market (albeit restricted).
Good point basketballs. Look for Will Bynum to be a starter while Q drastically cuts Stuck's minutes next season. Rodney will just have to earn his time by practicing hard and "staying ready" while he suffers through extended periods of DNPCDs. This should set the Pistons up to save a few bucks toward the 2012 cap and buy Mike Abdenour a few new sweater-vests.
Since we're talking about next season's roster, here's a good sign: Pistons' Austin Daye working to increase his role | detnews.com | The Detroit News
Could be the opposite. His market value is reasonable high (though inflated) and he will have a very high incentive to perform this year. Of course, for most of us, it will be on the offensive end and not the IQ end. For him, this will work out OK, since offensive figures lead negotiation via agents. Agents are not immune and compound their clients ego on obtaining a further inflated value. I had wishful thinking that JD saw the long ticket and might push him out as the lead factor (kicker closer on a trade) drawing up the shades on this year's drought. He is cheap (the reason he stays) and gives a high legitimacy toward his draft selection insights (the bigger reason). JD will not be pulling any triggers (He will sit) and close outs will be on the cautious side. The long hot summer will bring no closure on a one year drought (via bad luck and patterns of universal, but dissonant elements) and the quick slide upward needs too many moons of alignment. Ownership sale is by corporate fiat and Citicorp (come-lick-my-hand) will assure committee rules. Time to refresh the resume.
This thread has turned into a "woe-is-us" for having rodney stuckey at point guard, as a lot of people have some mis-directed anger towards the former 15 pick. I say mis-directed because of the problems people had with how he was developed. Everyone loved when he came of the bench behind rip and chauncey in the playoffs, but once he became the starter (by way of the AI trade) the hatin' began. Some of the reasons behind the vitriol was that he was not Chauncey, that he should sit for AI, and of course that he is not a natural 1 and should slide to the 2 or get out of the way. I propose that much of the haterade being passed around regarding Stuckey has its roots in these early years with the team and the decisions that the team made on his behalf. In talking about this year's draft I began to think about how much it would have sucked if it didn't work out this way for Stuckey and the pistons. While reading about Joe D's (arguable) draft busts, I wondered, what if Stuckey was a bust. (While some people would say he already is a bust I'm talking crapping out of the D-league-after-year-3 bust, think Cedric Simmons, no. 15, 2006). Lets try a "It's a wondeful life" style reflection on how the pistons would be without Stuckey. If Stuckey was completely worthless, The Chauncey trade would have had more than disastrous results, as the AI-Hamilton Train Wreck would have ran right out of the playoffs that year. Actually, the trade probably wouldn't have happened, since the lack of strength at point would have meant we couldn't afford to let him go. Even Chauncey could not have saved the disaster that was Michael Curry, especially with Juan Dixon picking up the missing minutes at guard. Then what??? Sheed and Dyess ultimately leave. We now have Chauncey's contract and there fore not enough cap space to get only one free agent to shore up our front line (CV31) and sign someone. Perhaps we are able to get a good player in the draft that year, but it won't be enough to make the pistons into a team, and would have left them in a cap predicament that would stuck in the basement in a way that would rival the teal years. While this thought exercise is fun (and I had to stop myself from making a possible depth chart including possible trades and signings), the point is we are pretty lucky to have the Rodney Stuckey pick work out. While his ability at the point position is definitely up for debate, having the roster spot of starting point guard filled for the past 3 years, and into this year has done a lot for the organization when it easily could have been a bust. Now it seems like we are a trade away.
. If you want to erase traces, then begin with bleach. It will do the job, but residuals have a tendency to fade with the original intent. You call for debate and think otherwise. After 3 years, he currently ranks somewhere in mid-range point guards. Not bad, but I can make a personal case that an easy development with a random pick (or say 25 talents not playing professional basketball or small chunks thereof) would get me close to this with one year training. It is all about closet secrets. SAS has always proved this to be the case: perceptions as a learning organization.
Sounds like what you're saying is that Stuckey was destined to be successful because he followed the normal course of development that goes along with being in a good organization, that being a mid-range point guard is not enough to be satisfied with, or could be disappointment. What I'm saying is that Acie Law (#11 pick in the same draft) would love to be producing as well as Rodney Stuckey. If there was an easy development process for starting pro-point guards, why did it not work out for him? Even #4 pick in that draft Mike Conley is not really as productive as Stuckey and was considered much more talented, you could argue that he should be a superstar, but he isn't clearly better than Stuckey. Stuckey plays much better than what can be attributed to SAS-like closet secrets (btw. all of SAS draft picks from that year contributed zero minutes for the spurs this year). You can argue that he is not that great, but you can't say that he's not that good.
I really dunno why people are so worried about PG position - isn' t that position already filled by point-forward ( who is passing his knowledge to future point-forward, you know, to Austin Daye)
Here are the problems with Stuckey: 1) he's not a great passer like other premier PG's. This isn't a skill that gets acquired at this stage. So, why waste time with him when we could be developing someone who will make the other players better? 2) He's a TERRIBLE jump shooter (only 2 starting PG's worse than him in the NBA, and they are more efficient from in the paint). See appendix #1 below. 3) While he makes some spectacular plays in the paint, he's not very efficient on his attempts in there. The times when he charges the crap out of the defenders don't even count in his shooting percentage. All this leads to inefficiency and L's. Appendix #1: Stuckey has the worst eFG% of any starting PG in the league (and probably most bench players too, I just didn't extend my search that far). His primary weakness is jump shots from outside the paint, which unfortunately account for 2/3rds of his game. Here are the starting PG's in the NBA and their eFG's from outside the paint: Kidd .555 Nash .542 Brooks .518 Paul .516 Jack .513 Bibby .511 Billups .491 Udrih .491 Nelson .489 Duhon .473 D. Williams .473 Rose .467 L. Williams .461 Fisher .459 Watson .458 Conley .457 Arenas .445 Felton .443 West .435 Jennings .433 Flynn .424 Ford .408 Parker .402 Harris .396 Wade .393 Davis .389 Rondo .374 Stuckey .372 Westbrook .361 Miller .361 If Stuckey would have taken the exact same number of shots this year and would have shot them with Billups' percentage, then the Pistons would have scored 3.6 more points per game and our offense would have been 10th in the league instead of 21st.
For me, this is the stat of the year. And from a guy who has more posts than LaDre and Moses. Thank-you.
Really good analysis TaS. I don't get too hung up on his lack of a J, but the passing and low efficiency in the paint do bother me a lot. I think Pass sort of makes the point recently that if you had put any of the other PGs drafted after him in that position, and with the ball in their hands that much, they might not have achieved much less. He's going to need a big season this year if he hopes to keep his job.
The assist numbers for the 3 lowest players on TaShawn's list: Stuckey 4.8 assists Westbrook 8.3 assists Miller 6.4 assists
Thanks for the info TaS....This will be his 4th year and he hasn't panned out and we still are struggling offensively....I say get rid of the bum and see if we can sign and resurrect the careers of Jay Williams or Smush Parker:nerd2:
