Next Season's Roster After The Summer of Lebron

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by tads, May 8, 2010.

  1. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    What a shooting year by Kidd by the way. I never thought his shot was a threat, but he started making them. '09 was his best shooting year of his career and then he bettered it this year.

    Both seasons he shot 3's at over 40%.

    What's the difference? He's been working with a dedicated shooting coach. Better mechanics and more arc in addition to practicing in the off season.

    Mavericks' Kidd adds dimension to his game with 3-point prowess | Sports News | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News

    SLAM ONLINE | ยป Eternal Youth for the Kidd
  2. tads

    tads First Round Draft Pick

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    With Stuckey we at least have a point guard. He is flawed, he is not the best in the NBA and there are countless statistical treatments that illustrate that he is not an elite point guard.

    That may be true, but you have to ask, does this stat really even matter. If Stuckey's inability in this area is so crucial, why is he in such good company? Russell Westbrook has the worst of the starters on your list, Rondo is very close to Stuckey, and Wade is right around the corner. While he is not as good as Billups in this area, it doesn't mean he will never be a successful point guard because of this.

    This and many other analysis out there are indisputable that Stuckey is not going to become an amazing point guard any time soon. Despite the fact that he won't be an all-star point guard, he is a pretty good PG for the time being. Here's 5 reasons why

    1. He might grow. A little. There are reasons for why he has not excelled yet, which we all know, (Inconsistent coaching and roster, His own Injuries, the limits of his talents) this season is a contract year, so this is the best chance for us to see if he can overcome these things.

    2. We do not have a power forward that has shown to be as effective as Stuckey is at his position and we literally do not have a center on our roster.

    3. Intangibles. He actually plays hard. He is an above average defender. He's got the highest adjusted player effeciency rating on the team. He doesn't sound like an idiot in interviews.

    4. We might draft the 6'11" version of this kid


    5. With his low salary it seems hard to argue why he shouldn't stick around at least until at least the trade deadline, or use him next year as a sign and trade. If he is really as bad as he could possibly be, we give him a cheap contract. If he is good he would be a good sign and trade for someone.

    From a roster standpoint, is there really a more cost effective solution immediately, given all of the other problems that we have?
  3. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    Giving up on Stuckey is WAY premature. To do so, you have to pretend that he wasn't injured the first few months of his rookie year, that he's played for 3 coaches and in 3 systems in 3 seasons, that the team has been highly dysfunctional and last year was crippled by injuries, and that he hasn't ever played on a team that's shot the ball well.

    Now, add a healthy group of Gordon, Daye, JJ (improving his 3 pt shooting), CV and Summers - and there's no way we won't be improved as a shooting team, give him some legitimate go-to players to pass to in the mid-range and in the post, and when that happens then Stuckey's assist totals will climb.

    Also, isn't it time to start spending equal time discussing Stuckey's obvious strengths? Like how he mauls smaller pg's (and just about every other PG in the league is smaller), how he's one of the best PG's at penetrating into the league and getting fouled (and he isn't getting the respect from the refs that he will over time), how he's unselfish, how he's excellent defensively and on the boards? Simply put, there are attributes he brings to a team that are unique, and he does it in a big PG package with great speed.
  4. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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  5. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    That's pretty funny.
  6. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    It just feels like this whole Stuckey ain't no PG! Yeah, but he does have some skillz yo! debate will become self-aware and start spawning threads of its own.
  7. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    You've just described about 28% of the plots of every science fiction movie ever filmed.
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Remember that Stuckey is dead last in the NBA in terms of eFG% for starting point guards.

    He is 270th in the NBA in 3-point percentage.

    In terms of assists per minute, he is 69th in the league, with about the same assist rate as Coby Karl and just ahead of Rip Hamilton.

    In fantasy rating, he is 120th, which puts him in the company of Rasheed Wallace and in a virtual tie with Charmin Villanueva.

    In terms of rebounds, he is 25th in the league for guards.

    Win shares per 48 minutes, he was 9th on the Pistons.

    In free throw percentage, he is 77th in the league (just behind Garnett)... this is actually pretty good. He's behind Billups, Atkins, Hamilton, Arroyo, and Ben Gordon, but it's still pretty good.


    If you're looking at intangibles, he's a stoic, non-verbal floor presence who led his team to the 2nd lowest point total in the NBA this year.

    Is he a good value? What I be a good value if I paid the Pistons $1MM per year and started at center? It's not just the money, it's the opportunity cost of having a guy fill a position.


    I enjoy watching Stuckey play and am don't have any simmering hatred for the guy. But looking at his stats is making me think that he doesn't have what any team needs at the point. Rondo, Wade, and guards with low eFG's make up for it in many other ways.

    And I also want to make it clear that I don't think he is our biggest problem. He's like our 6th biggest problem. We are imbalanced and weak.
  9. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    He'll never get better? Players don't improve? Playing on dysfunctional teams doesn't effect them.
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Playing on a dysfunctional team? In his first year, we were 2 wins away from the Finals with him coming off the bench.

    In his second year, we replaced Billups with Stuckey and added a hall of fame player and got swept in the first round of the playoffs.

    In his third year, we got rid of the hall of fame player, traded a deflated Sheed for a rejuvinated Big Ben added 2 prized free agents, got a steal in Jerebko, and we were one of the worst teams in the league.


    Stuckey might get better, but I don't think he can blame the organization for not giving him a fair deal. They rolled out the red carpet for him.
  11. tads

    tads First Round Draft Pick

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    Stuckey does make up for things in other ways.

    Among PG's playing more than 25 min/game who played at least 40 games:

    Stuckey is 5th in Offensive, Defensive, and Total Rebounding Rate

    He is 7th in And-1 percentage

    He takes care of the ball exceptional well with less turnovers than most guards he is often compared against and has a Turnover Percentage that is 7th among nba starters.

    He is 10th in Steals

    He's 12th in Free Throw percentage, which isn't bad at all.

    CBS puts him at 17th out of all NBA Point Guards, which is probably where he is right now.

    As far as the team goes he is in 17 of the top twenty 5 man line-ups, He leads the team in APER and Simple rating, and is 2nd in Efficiency behind Tayshaun.

    As far as intangibles go, Stuckey plays through injuries, comes back from seizures playing as many minutes as possible, and leads his teams to numerous come backs that make a number of those losses a lot better than they could have been.

    Now in looking at the data there are some clear problems with Stuckey, namely passing and shooting.

    His shooting problems might be a function of having to shoot too much. His low numbers in the percent of his shots that were assisted, and his high usage makes me imagine a situation where Stuckey has the ball and is forced to create instead of having shots created out of an offense. More than 1/3 of his shots are taken in the last 10 seconds of the shot clock. If Kuester is able to put a coherent offensive plan in place then Stuckey will not need to create as much in these situations and he can be more selective with his shooting and then increase his shooting percentage. This might also improve his passing.

    I think Stuckey is a good player, but the knocks on his gamer are valid. His biggest problems are things that can be fixed by having an appropriate offense and some coaching about how to play the right way. His best years are definitely ahead of him.

    However, even if he stays as good as he is now, he is still probably better than most of the point guards that we can reasonably acquire if he can operate within an offense that understands his strengths and limitations. The opportunity that we would lose out on by having a better player at that position would be the lack of resources we can put into all of the other holes we have.

    That opportunity cost is why I got into this whole argument in the first place. Stuckey was our draft pick and he has done about as good as could be expected from a 15 pick, and the value of having him around is much better than if we decided he was so bad that he had to be replaced, as the process of replacing him would set the team back a great deal.
  12. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Right on point, Stuckey got anointed in premature thence fans got offended. Wish that he's working out his J as well as treys, he will be more unpredictable on court as soon as he'd got more weapon in him.
  13. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Do we need a new Stuckey Appreciation or Justifying Stuckey Thread or how about one called we are Stuck with Stuckey:sssh:
  14. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Just human nature I say. Fans got offended by JD's anointing to Stuckey while some came to Stuckey's defence as fires been rained heavily down on him. That's the forum is built for.
  15. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    TaS and tads - I'm loving your back and forth discussion. I find myself agreeing with both of you. My conclusion: I dunno!
  16. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    Aren't we trying to REBUILD a team here...?

    Gilbert Arenas would set this franchise back a few more years. As bad as Hamilton's contract is, it doesn't hold a candle to Arenas.

    I wouldn't touch Arenas with a 10 foot pole.
  17. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    LOL, that's love, because you love the Pistons.
  18. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    :rockon:
  19. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    This is the first word that I think of when I hear the name "Rodney Stucky".
  20. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    I understand the apprehension, really I do, I have them myself but, a starting backcourt of Arenas and Gordon intrigues me. Arenas is a ton of talent, Gilbert is better than Chauncey was when we first brought Chauncey in from Minnesota. Much like Billups (at that time) he has alot to prove (which is a JoeD signature trait). He's healthy again, he is still relatively young at 28, so he's still at a point in his career where he can earn his contract. A three guard rotation of Arenas, Gordon and Stuckey could be lethal.

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