Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by buddahfan, Oct 6, 2005.
Flip says Yea, Ben and Sheed say Nea.
You have to take pride in your individual defense to be as good as the Pistons, so I understand the guys wanting to stay with what works. But zones have worked well against us, so why not add an extra weapon? It might result in more regular season wins against teams without great shooting or passing, especially during a long road trip when the guys don't have their legs.
I think a Pistons zone could be so effective it'd spawn copycats accross the league. The length and athleticism of the Piston big men could make it just lethal. I'd also really like to see how Darko could do in a zone. I have a hunch he'd be incredibly disruptive.
If it doesn't work out we can always go back to man to man, but if I was a player I really wouldn't want to mess with Ben, Sheed, and Tay in the inside, or on the wing, So this defense can confuse teams especially teams we verse, and have versed in the playoffs (Miami, and Indiana) because they expect us to play man to man.
as mentioned above, if it's another weapon, why not?
we got beat off the perimeter so many times last season. maybe throwing a zone at penetrators like DWade will prove to be effective.
i think guys like Ben are just worried about learning something new and looking bad during the learning curve. but like it's been mentioned a bazillion times, this team is so athletic and long a zone could be downright scary to play against.
I wouldn't go so far as to say it is a weapon as much as a "look".
It's too bad things ended so poorly with LB in a way, because it would have been nice to retain one of his coaches involved in defense.
I'm not against zone, it just isn't superior to what we were running before. It's different, which can be an advantage if you switch up on teams by zoning after made baskets or some other variation but it should not be a base defense for a team with this many committed and skilled defenders.
This is one area that bothers me because zone is a great defense for covering up deficiencies, not necessarily bringing the best out of individual defensive talents. The contention that we will be good in zone because we are long and athletic also applies to man "D". We are great in man "D" because we are long and athletic.
I'm all for Flip cranking up the "O", but too much change on "D" spooks me. As is slowly becoming my mantra this offseason, I will wait for results before committing myself too hard to one opinion...
Say No To The Zone
I don't like the zone. I remember LB went to the zone a few times last season and each time we gave up easy dunks.
The zone is for defensive challenged teams that can't play man to man.
The zone is nice for a change of pace briefly during a game. Nothing more than that though!!!
i don't think our zone efforts last season are in any way a preview to how are zone will be this season. LB threw the players in a haphazard zone for a play or two and once the other team scored, he'd give up on it (much like player substitutions.....but that's another thread). the players didn't look comfortable in the zone and it was obvious they didn't commit to much time in practice perfecting it.
i know man-to-man defense was our strength, but to say it was perfect is to turn a blind eye to some of our weaknesses last season.....namely dribble penetration. while chaucey could post up smaller PGs, he had much trouble staying in front of guys like Wade. i say a zone defene is a weapon and it may be an effective one, just based on the fact that teams have never really faced a zone defense that has been played with talented individual defenders.
maybe my analogy is simplistic, but if Minnesota can be a decent defensive team, playing a zone with mediocre individual defenders (aside from KG).....imagine a "souped-up" zone with defenders like Ben, Tay, Sheed!
edit: but, i agree with you Micro...i'll wait until i see the finished product to decide if it works. thankfully we have a professional group of guys who'll bust their humps to play any way their coach asks..
i agree 100% if they worked on it or played it a little more it might have been a valuable assset. souped up turbo charged zone pistons style could be a great thing i hope the players buy in
You have to love the fact that we have a coach who envisions a better defense. Or at least seems to. Every time Flip talks about it, I get all enamored and think we gonna win it all again with opponents scoring like maybe 10% from the floor against us.
But the reality is, we are a good defensive team as is. The man to man is always gonna be there and is our bread and butter defense. We can give Flip's vision a look. If it works out, then I say throw it in there to mix it up and give opponents hell.
Heck, if the zone is effective for defense-challenged teams then imagine what it could do for a defensive team like the Pistons?
I'm just saying, let's get it in there, try it out some and if it works, work it in some more.
I think that it would be especially good for our 2nd team. Arroyo, Delfino, Darko, etc. have not been excelling in the man-to-man and they are all quick enough to play a good zone. Add JMax and the Acks and we're all set. Switch it up with Dice/ Lindsay/ Evans.
If we could turn the zone on and off throughout the game, we'd be a nightmare to prepare for. We already are.
exactly man to man will still be our bread and butter we can always fall back on that. but throwing out a zone every now and then will definitely be a good thing to be able to do. with our speed and length zone could be very effective especially if flip adds in corner traps.
but i agree with some other posters that said zone is a way to cover up weaker defenders. which will be good for delfino and maybe arroyo. but i will say that zone can be just as effective as man to man. the nba doesn't have that many great shooters anymore. with our great interior big men we could really run something like box and 1 against ginobli,wade,kobe, iverson, tmac.
For anyone who doesn't know much about zone, here is a brief explanation from the greatest resource on the web, Wikipedia.
I went for a drive this morning after my first post, and suppose that most of my concerns come from fear of change.
Flip is the "chef", JD has done the grocery shopping, and now it is up to Flip to make a gourmet meal from these quality ingredients. As the head coach, he deserves the right to decide how his team will play.
Buddy Ryan said it best (I'm paraphrasing), "If I am going to get fired, I am going to get fired playing my guys, my way".
of course you can turn it off and on example turn it on after a time out, after a freethrow, after a fast break turn it off when a team starts to make a run body them up man to man, after the first quarter let them think ohh no zone and then just confuse the hell out of them
This is true.
However, in my opinion I just think the zone makes a team very lazy when you use it alot. It also makes us vulnerable on the boards. As long as we don't see teams getting alot of second chance opportunities. I can go along with it. It doesn't hurt if we try it as long as we don't exclusively become a zone team.
I just don't like adding or changing too much stuff at once. It seems like Flip is going to put his stamp on this team early which is good for him but might not be good for the team early on which may cost us wins and homecourt advantage in the end. If it aint broke don't fix it. The defense isn't broke last time I checked. There are going to be enough growing pains on offense we don't need them on defense too.
Yep. New coach so let him give it a shot. Why not? Never hurts to add a new dimension.
I would think they could always go back to the old way without too much difficulty.
I don't know though...I don't want to see another situation like with his predecessor where he forces something down their throat that just won't work as effectively with these particular guys even though it is the style he is most comfortable with. Then again, some of the things Larry forced on some of them were highly beneficial to the individuals and the team.
Bottom line, I just don't know, but I think it's an interesting idea and worth a good look. I think if the Pistons can add a killer zone to their existing arsenal they would be downright scary (scarier) on D. If he uses the zone exclusively, however, I agree, we will just have to see how it turns out.
that's most definitely an issue. homecourt advantage could have won us the title last season. the regular season is much more important this season.
Flip's got a small window of opportunity to prove to the players (and fans) that his systems will work. if things don't start to fall into place, there might be some dissention for things to go back the way they were.
I started to understand when Flip said that a lot of teams are not prepared against a zone defense. If our zone defense is good, which it will probably will be, then our opponents have to double their preparation against us. They have to prepare offensive sets for both our man-to-man and our zone defense. Plus, Flip will be incorporating some full court and half court traps as well. Just imagine how off-balance our opponents will be if we end up playing Flip's vision very well. They're gonna need to prepare so much more just to play us.
We're all anxious/excited to see how things will turn out defensively, but I'm betting that Flip, with all the great tools that he has in Detroit, will reveal that he is just as creative defensively as he is offensively.
My overall oppinion on the subject:
If its used as a compliment, I am fine with Zone-D. If its used as the standard or as a competing system, I think it will turn out poorly.
The Zone will help.
This will help us beat alot of those teams that we are suppossed to beat. Teams can score off zones easily if they are patient and execute well, the bad teams are bad teams because they do neither of the 2. Go to a zone and bad teams will begin forcing the issue or hoisting from long range. All you guys talking about the zone will help us stop Wade??? Dream on brotha's and sista's alike. There is no stopping Wade or Shaq, just try to contain and make them earn it.
A zone defense actually aides Miami, they are at their best when Flash and the Diesel are playmakers. Keep them scorers and it's 2 on 5. The Zone opens it up for Miami to play team ball with the rock rotating from side to side, they'd kill us in a zone.
Indy is a lil bit mor stagnant and predicatable (ahhh the fruits of Cola), so a Zone could possiblt throw them off, but this is where their new imported PG would come in handy, not to metion that Artest is a very underrated 3pt shooter, but I'd rather have Ronnie on the arc rather than inside beating up on Tay.
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