Opinions Please On Pistons Playing Zone Defense

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by buddahfan, Oct 6, 2005.

  1. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    My sentiments exactly except I do fear that it will be easy for us to drop into the habit of playing zone when we are struggling with defensive intensity as opposed to kicking it up another gear like we have done in the past.
  2. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Don't be too sure. Didn't you see those pictures of Rip and Ben swinging the huge mallet around at training camp? Timberrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
  3. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    i truly see fatoine and williams jacking up 3's against the zone. wade isn't known as a 3 point shooter. shaq has no outside shot at all. but you are right there is no stopping them. zone will just be another thing to throw at them. just like tay on wade, rip on wade, lindsey on wade throwing different looks at him until something works.
  4. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Zone D

    I think the zone would be a nice change of pace to give teams another look.

    Used sparingly, I think it would really catch teams off guard who are used to seeing us play tight man to man. The fact that it would be a different look, combined with our great quickness, athleticism and reach from 1-5 should cause more than a few turnovers. Combined that with Flips more wide open, fast break offence and I like the possibilities.
  5. #1Pistonfan

    #1Pistonfan First Round Draft Pick 2x Fantasy Champion

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    zone

    I like the idea of zone D. With the length of Wallace X2 + Tay, I think it would be very hard to get penetration near the basket (of course there's are going to be Shaq which really doesn't matter what type of D, he'll get his).

    I'm sure there will be different forms of zone that Flip will use, maybe Tay, Billups & Rip running around on the perimeter and Wallace X2 guarding the paint.

    Anyway, I think a new look will be a plus for the team.
  6. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Where I see this being effective is after a timeout.
    Their coach draws a play to beat our defense... we throw a new look at them to make them pause or adjust on the fly.

    It could be very effective in an out of bounds situation late in the shot clock.. not enough time for them to recognize the switch.

    If you guys get a chance catch some of these "real camp" segments on NBA TV... some of it is fascinating... just finished watching the Clippers camp... some nice strategy sesions... just confirms how little us posters know about the inner workings of the game....and we spend so much time second guessing lineups?... this is where we'll miss LB most... behind the scenes.

    Can't wait for them to show the Pistons camp
  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I'm getting scared the more I re-read that article, that this will be our base offense. It doesn't sound like Flip thinks the zone is a "mix it up" strategy, but one that can be exploited against teams regularly because they are not prepared for it.

    Read between the lines. He thinks that other teams are not ready to counter it. He thinks that it is more effective against the P&R. Sounds to me like he thinks it is the MOST effective defense.

    Makes sense because he is a big proponent of it. I don't see him installing a new defensive scheme for less than a quarter's run a game.
  8. iamme

    iamme First Round Draft Pick

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    i can see your concern, but i'd be surprised if Flip was ready to go against the grain so early in his tenure here. i'd imagine a lot of dissent from a guy like Ben if Flip was like, "we're playing zone D for most of the game, with SOME man-to-man." it's almost an insult to Ben who takes an immense amount of pride in his D.

    OTOH, if Flip's zone defense schemes somehow prove to be monumentally effective, isn't it logical to think we should try to use it more often? hypothetically, what if we put up a zone defense and hold a team scoreless for like 10 minutes? what if we suddenly start holding teams under 70 again with our zone defense? how crazy would that be?
  9. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    Stop worrying. Nobody runs zone as their base defense in the pros. Jeez, you'd think friggin' Matt Millen was walking into the Palace press room and introducing Marty Morningweg as the new Stones coach or something. Nobody's selling gimmicks or Dallas Mavericks jive to cover up a chronic disinterest in D. It's just a tactic.
  10. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Yeah I watched last year's version with the New Orlean Hornets. Very entertaining and enlightning. After watching Scott run practice I actually left thinking they were a decent team. The regular season proved otherwise though. :) Strange how all that effort can still lead to a sucky team.
  11. TBird

    TBird First Round Draft Pick

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    The Zone

    I would agree with those who say they would like to see it as a complement to the man-to-man, rather than in lieu of. I would feel more comfortable going primarily with man-to-man, and using the zone in spots (it may not be a bad idea when Arroyo/Delfino are in the game as a mechanism to cover up their defensive liabilities, or as a change-of-pace defense).
  12. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Super!!!

    It just seems to me that when we shifted into like the trapping defense, with no warning, it is disruptive. Then if we have the zone, as well, to suddenly change the pace and the look, it could be very disruptive.

    It did work against us at times; I believe it started some of those scoring draughts we were famous for, even the year we won it all.

    This is the kind of thinking that Flip brings to the Pistons. :thumb:
  13. puertoricanballer

    puertoricanballer First Round Draft Pick

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    Zone defense

    The problem with zone defense is that a player is not responsible for a particular player but it is responsible for his assigned zone. That means that coming rebounding time, it is easier for an offensive player to sneak in and grab an offensive board. Also a backdoor cut from the weak side is harder to defend because of the same reasons above. to be sucessful in a zone there have to be a lot of communication between the defender to avoid been boxed out or cut on from an opposing player. Why reinvent the wheel? Our defense was ranked one of the best in the league. Zone defense should only be use sparingly and against teams without shooters. Let's see how the experiment works in the preseason.
  14. BigDaddy

    BigDaddy First Round Draft Pick

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    It could be very disruptive as long as it isn't used to much during the game and isn't our primary mode of defense.Hopefully it will be adjusted out if it doesn't work knowing that we man up against anyone very well.

    It should be a game to game decision that I don't think should be used every game but who knows it's Flip's baby.
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Man to Zone

    We know that our top 5 play good man to man, but that's about it. Dyess, Arroyo, Delfino, Darko, Evans, Rookies are all weak links in the man to man scheme. Howabout a bench that specializes in zone with a starting 5 that specializes in man2man?

    The reason that we have been such a great defensive teams in the last 2-3 years, is that we only played 7 players, and they were all solid. If we are going to play 12 players, we need to hide the weak links.
  16. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    my opinion

    First of all, in general, zones are inferior to man to man. Pretty much any zone can be busted down and busted down hard once the other team does its homework and is prepared for it.

    However, I am sure many Piston fans can remember games where the Pistons lost from not being prepared for a zone. Indeed, in Carlisle's first year, we had a stretch where a few teams employed a zone to our detriment as they saw we could not handle it. Of course, Carlisle had his team work on this a bit and soon we could break zones easily enough.

    So whats the key? Don't over use it. Use it some to make other teams respect it and spend some time with in practice on . Use it to pick up an easy win on occasion by springing it on an unsuspecting team.

    Leave a lot of your best tricks for the playoffs. Imagine how important one win could be early in a series by springing our best zone stuff on an opponent who is not prepared for half the stuff we pull that game. Sure, they will practice for next game, but it will not show up. They will have wasted their practice time on the wrong thing and maybe we win that game too.

    Ok, so I see a lot of posters pretty much agree that the zone is a good change of pace, and that it should not be overused. But then again there is the counter argument that this particular team could do very well with the zone.

    Ben is about the best zone player imagineable. Although we call what he does man to man, really he is playing zone all the time. The no fly zone. Think about it. Ben already covers more ground more effectively than any other NBA player. And guys that get inside our zone, still must face Ben. Even in a zone formation, Ben can move to the basket and defend it quicker than anyone else.

    And there is Tay. Does he play man to man. Yes he does. But what if you are trying to fast break? Tay has you covered. Tay can move real quick, real fast, and bring a ton of length, ups, reach, and height to the party.

    Amir Johnson has great ups, fantastic speed and quickness, and is 6-10. Rip is tall and quick. Maxiell has a 7-3 wingspan. Billups brings a lot of toughness with at least average height at decent quickness. Acker is quick, long, athletic. Darko is the fastest big man you can find and has tons of reach. Sheed is a very mobile center with lots of length.

    Players who might not be the best at playing zone: Delfino, Arroyo, Davis, Hunter, Dyess. But as someone noted, sometimes a zone can be used as a tool to win a game by hiding a defensive weakness. (Nothing wrong with that as long as you still keep trying to get that guy to get better-but no need to lose a game while teaching the guy)

    Best zone unit: Acker, Tay, Amir Johnson, Ben, Darko

    A tougher zone with less quicks: CB, Tay, Maxiell, Ben, Sheed
  17. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    lol

    Lee, did you really think you were being slick sneaking in that lineup like that ? :suspiciou
  18. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Lee

    In my opinion there's no way AJ and Acker, two rookies, are on the "all zone" team over Billups. In fact, I'd rather AJ wasn't even on the Pistons roster this season. I'd like to see him spend a year in the DL rather than riding the pine. Next year can be his year to ride the pine and learn from the vets.

    CB has the quickness, size and awareness to be a great zone defender. Not to mention the fact that he's played the exact same system under Flip in Minny.

    I do agree that we should use the zone sparingly early and save its effectiveness for when it matters most - the playoffs. In fact, I'm a bit disappointed the Flip has already let the cat out of the bag and spoken so openly about it. Although, in all fairness, it was a bit of an inevitability with him.
  19. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Jammertime

    Welcome to Lee's version of fantasy basketball. :wacko:
  20. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Although getting off topic, I sure don't know where to post this reply to you, but here it goes. (How about it Micro, have a thread for this kind of thing at least-off topic responses to part of a thread.)

    Joe Dumars signed Amir Johnson to a two year contract. That means we get him this season and next, and then I believe we can match any offers up to the MLE to keep him. You are basically saying we made a mistake in signing Amir Johnson. Because we surely could have told a 2nd round pick to go to Europe, the CBA, or try to hook up with an NBDL team if we chose to. We did not. We signed the guy and must play him while we have him under contract. Here is an argument back at you. You think King James should have been sent to an NBDL team his first year? Amir Johnson is scary athletic. He belongs in the NBA right now. Sure, we have a lot of players ahead of him on this team, but look out. None of them are near the athlete he is, and he has some serious skill too. Sure he can fill out some at this point, but he has already exceeded 6-10 and 220 pounds and is growing. Don't blink or you are going to miss this guy going from rookie to star.

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