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Our Orlando pick

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Aug 29, 2006.

  1. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Tonight, the backup centers on the Detroit Piston's 2004 Championship team scored 45 points and has 21 rebounds.
     
  2. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Whew. Thank goodness this isn't a Darko thread.
     
  3. max

    max All-Star

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    Its kind of hard to pimp stats for the total value of a player. I think someone like Dyess ( when he is on ) helps a team to victory more than Darko does, even though Darko may have the prettier stat line. Maxiel has a bigger impact that Darko in many games.

    Going to have to wait 2-3 years before calling the trade a mistake. We don't know what pick we will get and what Dumars will do with it. Wait a couple of years and compare the balance sheet.

    Orlando did not have to blow a #2 pick on this guy so its all good over there. No high expectations.
     
  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    That is why the +/- stat is so closely watched by the basketball analysts. It shows overall value. That is Darko's greatest attribute right now... overall effect on basketball games.

    Can someone explain that away? I can't think of a single reason why his +/- would be so skewed? He plays 60% with the bench and 40% with the starters. He plays in the 2nd quarter and then he plays in crunch time. It seems like a pretty diversified sampling to me.

    If you're not watching him solely to pick out mistakes, it is obvious why he helps the team so much. He sets at least 20 screens per game. He guards the pick and roll. He neutralizes most other team's centers. He deters the guards from driving in the paint. He boxes out like it's 1950. He tips rebounds to teammates. He keeps his blocked shots in bounds. Etc, etc. He also does the opposite of Sheed... in that he spreads the floor on offense by camping out in the post and demanding a double team. In short, he plays big.

    LB was the first to realize that this would be Darko's strength.
     
  5. max

    max All-Star

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    Partly because there is not a big talent drop with Orlando's bench so Darko is out there with better players.

    I am not saying Darko will not have a decent career. He still has a long long way to go before he lives up to being a #2 pick. And we still do not know if the players we end up with as the result of the trade will be better for the Pistons.
     
  6. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    This whole defense you've constructed is flawed as you are attempting again to associate Darko's relevance with how superior he is to Detroit's bench. Again, and for the last time, I am not comparing Darko to the Pistons bench which is admittedly weak, but to the REST of the NBA. Other players given just as much minutes, have produced better statistically than Darko with LESS NBA experience!!!!!!!! This is typical of most Darko arguements. Do I think Darko could help our current team? Of course. Do I think Darko is all-star quality? Nope.

    As far as underappreciated defensive players go, Darko has shown me nothing that would suggest that he is in the ballpark of great defensive players like Ben Wallace, Dikembe Mutumbo, Michael Cooper, etc... who made their name by having COMPLETE overall defensive games. The numbers support their brilliance. Darko's does not. This is why I call him an excellent role player and not an all-star. His +/- arguement is on par with the dreaded Michael Curry debate. It means nothing to me. Projected numbers mean nothing to me. I'm about results.

    On Orlando's committment to Darko...
    • They've pulled an extended contract offer off the table.
    • Have shown a willingness to allow Darko to test his worth in the free agent market
    • Don't have a shred of Darko merchandise in the arena
    • Have continued to allow Battie to start ahead of him and fluctuate his minutes for the worse when they KNOW playing time has always been a sore spot with him
    • Have expressed various times to the press that Darko still needs to prove his worth to the team
    Doesn't sound like committment to me.

    Darko fans don't have a leg to stand on these days. This latest opportunity for Darko, if he doesn't produce, may finally shut the door on this debate. Will he produce? Only Darko can answer that question. As much as you and bballjay love Darko, it isn't enough to insure that he will ever be an all-star player in this league. And for the record, if Darko eventually succeeds I will never accredit it to his track record. Its weak. It will only be because he has shown me something inconsistent with his career so far which to me is defined by motivational issues and unrealistic/overhyped expectations.

    ...and now I will drift back into my slumber away from Darko debating and back to more exciting players in the NBA. ...and thats a helluva lot of players.

    That Orlando pick is looking better and better each day. :)
     
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think I see the problem here.

    You are arguing that he is not an all-star.

    I am arguing that we should have kept him.

    Apples and oranges I guess.


    How many all-stars do the Pistons have right now anyway? Are you pretty confident this guy we're going to pick up in the draft will be an all-star?

    And +/- is not in any way a projected number. It is actual results while on the court. It is not adjusted for minutes played.
     
  8. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Now we're back on track.

    Good questions.

    I would say that we probably have no all-stars at this point (with the exception of Rip and Chauncey is close). I don't have alot of confidence in our drafting skills or our ability to develop/keep young talent, but I'm willing to give whoever we get a chance. One thing is for certain, that player doesn't have to do much to equal the contribution Darko gave to the Pistons organization.

    And I wasn't calling +/- a projected number. I was saying that the numbers used to validate Darko's performance have been +/- AND 48 min stat projections. Those stats don't impress me as I think more often than not they can be misleading. Anytime I can see Dwight Howard getting darn near 20 pts and 20 boards and register and overall minus for the game....I question how much the +/- statistic really relates to how much of a postive influence a player has on the court.

    I'd also want to clear up this point. I think it is extremely obvious that Darko currently isn't an all-star. Who could argue that point? The thought I am trying to convey is that he has not shown much yet that would suggest he is even on his way to all-star status. Until I'm proven otherwise, he is a Bruce Bowen type player and not a Ben Wallace.
     
  9. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    I think the Gangsta perked up because of the extra minutes.
    He got 34, is that his most ever?
     
  10. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    I wathed the Orlando game, as I watch them all. Darko continually stripped the ball from Bogut, and basically made Bogut look like highschool player. Darko only got 4 blocks, but he altered shot after shot. Darko goes out after a huge percentage of shots-its hard for the other team go ever get a shot where they have any time to think.
     
  11. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    that person will also be given more of a chance to contribute to the pistons organization. darko is showing in orlando that he can definitely contribute to a team. how bad do you want to be right that you can't admit that we messed up trading darko away for nothing.

    well darko's +/- is positive because he comes in and shuts down the other team often time and his team keeps scoring. don't discredit the stat just because it doesn't fit your argument. also since you compare darko to other players on other teams compare the teams also. orlando has a very balanced attack if you aren't d.howard or g.hill it's hard to put up consistent quality numbers. they are like the pistons of old having 6 -7 players in double figures.

    what did ben show in his first couple of years that showed he would be an all star?? what has ben shown this year without sheed and mcdyess behind him that shows he's an all star?? but i agree darko will be a bruce bowen type of player just racking up the championships and taking on the teams best offensive player. darko makes teams a contender.
     
  12. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    If that pick falls to about 15, I'll be satisfied.
     
  13. max

    max All-Star

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    I would take that.

    Grant Hill has been carrying that team lately so its basically as far as he and Howard can take them.
     
  14. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    actually it's time for darko to take over. grant just went down with an injury.


    if only b. hill would let him. the offense is better running through darko. he's a more complete offensive player than dwight. the offense is less predictable going through darko. darko gets dwight easy baskets. it's time to unleash the twin towers.


    jj needs to be worked in and ariza will be back soon. orlando is still very much in the mix.
     
  15. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Cement Mix I hope
     
  16. max

    max All-Star

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    What? Wouldn't you rather see Orlando and Darko do well than have the Pistons get a decent draft pick?
     
  17. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Wow, Max :pound: Welcome to the DHOF Club :stirthepot: !!

    It didn't take quite as long :pound: as I thought :pound: it would, :pound: but almost !!!

    Here's your badge :nerd2: !!
     
  18. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    I can't take your opinion seriously bballjay.

    You are too affected.

    (see, I'm finally learning)
     
  19. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Seriously, I'll bet Orlando would give us Darko and C.A. back if we return their pick.:stirthepot:
     
  20. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    You know what Tater, I think I might have to agree with that one. lol!
     

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