1. Football Picks Survivor is done for 2014. Congrats to billlaimbeer from The Pistons Forum

Piston Front Line without Tayshaun

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by lazyberbs, Oct 16, 2005.

  1. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Central Michigan
    It is extremely early from several standpoints but I did see this mentioned on one of the forums last week. What do we do if Tayshaun does not stay with the Pistons? We could also think about this if Taysh was injured for a long period.

    The person who mentioned it was talking about the new front line being Ben, Sheed and Darko. People have talked about all three being able to play some at the 3.

    My wondering centers around which one would play the 3 best, and which one would cause fewer problems to the team in the way of lost production compared to the figures he would produce at the position he is at, now.

    I am thinking of Ben switching to the 3, Sheed playing the 4, and Darko at the 5. I think that would be the best combination if the decision was made to play those three.

    My question is whether or not we would lose much of Ben's effectiveness if he was to play the 3 instead of the 5. Would he lose or gain in scoring; whould he lose or gain in boards; would he lose or gain in blocks?

    In thinking about it, I believe that he would be even more effective as a 3; there should be no 3 in the league that is much quicker and those tough guys like Artest, Ben could handle more easily than Taysh.

    Sheed would handle the 4 well, and I think they are figuring Darko for the 5 anyway.

    I really want Tayshaun to stay, but if he decides to take someone else's offer or is injured for a long period of time, what do you all think?

    Would Ben be a good choice for the 3 ?
     
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,797
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    I can't see Ben playing the 3. He has zero perimeter game.

    People may not know this, but when he came into the league it was with Boston as a FA. They tried to make him a shooting guard. FAILURE.

    I think that is why J-Max was drafted. I think that is why Amir Johnson was drafted. I think that is why we have Evans, Delfino and Dupree who can all play the three.

    Joe dotted his I's and crossed his T's on this one. He knew the renegotiation would be a mess. So he built up a stable of guys who can play the 3.

    IMO lazy, Darko starts the day Sheed gets traded.
     
  3. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    3,759
    Likes Received:
    2
    Okay I'm only answering this for a major injury, because I know tay is going to stay here he said he wants to. Anyways I would put Sheed at the 3, Ben at the 4 ,and Darko at the 5. Sheed is the best perimeter shooter out of the 3 so he'd go at SF, and Darko is bigger than Ben so I just put him at center. I believe this isn't going to happen though. I hope I'm right.
     
  4. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,301
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    NY, NY
    Tay may be the first casualty from LB that we see. It wasnt just Darko, Delfino, and Arroyo suffering, Tay clearly had issues with the previous regime. And from my view, Tay doesnt seem to have too much loyalty to the Pistons now (maybe he blames the orginization for forcing him to deal with Larry). And from Joe's stockpiling of 3's, Joe isnt willing to match other teams over paying Tay.

    So, this, IMHO, this is Tay's last year as a Piston, lets enjoy it. And let's hope Delfino, Evans, or one of the rooks prove valuble replacements.

    As for Darko playing 3, no chance. His future is at the 4, eventually, next year or the year after, Sheed is going to be traded or sent to the second unit.
     
  5. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    15,968
    Likes Received:
    3,909
    Location:
    Michigan
    Pay day

    You may be right 16 Mile. It sounds like Tay isn't going to be happy with the $50 million the Pistons are offering. He better start playing more assertively or he ain't going to get any more money from other teams next summer.
     
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,797
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Bit of a stretch to theorize that Tay's contract demands have anything to do with playing for Larry Brown. Scratch that. A helluva stretch.

    The reality is that Joe's reported offer is more than fair, and Tay wants to be paid like an All-Star.

    He has NEVER played like an All-Star. In my opinion, he will never be an All-Star. All homerism aside, Tay will probably never be a 18/6/6 SF. He's just not assertive enough. He's a man, not THE MAN.
     
  7. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    15,968
    Likes Received:
    3,909
    Location:
    Michigan
    All-Star

    I think if Tay goes to a crappy team, he could put up All-Star numbers. Then again, I thought the same thing about Okur...
     
  8. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,404
    Likes Received:
    71
    Location:
    Windsor, Ontario
    still the Prince of the Palace?

    Agreed.

    Prince took issues with the Pistons bringing in a Hall of Fame coach, winning a "ship" and almost winning back to back? I'm confused. Is it the commitment to winning that Prince took issues with?

    Maybe Prince didn't like LB. I'll add his name to the list. But to take issue with the entire organization for it? I think Prince is a bit more mature than that. Not to mention the fact that wouldn't Prince be happy with the Pistons for firing LB if he hated him that much? I would think that would make him more loyal to them, not less.

    LB had much bigger dogs in his house than Prince. Younger, less mature guys like Darko and Delfino especially. They both seem to have been able to seperate the Pistons organization from their dislike of LB. I would think that Prince would be able to do the same as well.

    We may well lose Prince to another team. But I don't think LB will have anything to do with it.... unless he convinces Prince to come to NY with him...
     
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,797
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Oh, wouldn't that be an interesting day on the forum. I don't even want to think about it.:doh:
     
  10. LA Sam

    LA Sam Second Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Down to Business

    I wouldn't read more into this than the fact that basketball is a business, and Prince needs to attempt to get the most money he can. My opinion is that Prince believes that he's better than he really is right now.

    It's one of the problems faced when a team wins, and the system makes everyone look good. The reality is that if Prince played on another(worse) team, he would put up better numbers, but he wouldn't have the legs to play(and concentrate) on defense as he does now.

    Of course he's skilled, but playing next to Sheed and Ben, can make a lot of SF look pretty good. Not to mention the fact that he could be playing next to Darko, a legit big man in the future(assuming everything works out).

    His best opportunity remains here, but money, and the antimosity caused by discussing money, could drive him to another situation. Heaven help us if he goes to Miami, Indy, NY, NY, or SA, then I really might have to blow some chunks.
     
  11. bricalz

    bricalz First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    9
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cebu City, Philippines
    OH well....

    I may have been wrong about Tay.

    I love his game. I love the way he is quiet and goes about his game. Just like Joe once did.

    He is my favorite player of this current crop of Pistons.

    Right now, I'm disappointed. He doesn't seem too be to excited about coming back and seems to be resigned to the fact that he'll play his rookie contract out and go for the big money.

    Tay, you were welcomed here when others didn't. I'm hoping just as all the others that you continue to hone and improve your game here in Detroit. Sometimes, money isn't the answer man. I know I know, it's a business.

    Guess I'm heading the wagon of the Keep-Dupree campaign. Tay, if you don't wanna be here, I'm pretty sure Joe'd be glad to accomodate you.

    Sorry guys, just a bit disappointed in Tay's comments lately. :P
     
  12. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,450
    Likes Received:
    451
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my bunker in the Carribbean
    Without Tay?

    The 2 immediate prospects are Delfino and Johnson. Both are not ready but could be next season if things go sour with Tay's negotiations.

    Out of Wallace/Darko Sheed is the only one with experience at the 3 but he is much better suited for the 4.

    I can't remember where I saw this but there was an interview with Hammons and he said something about some future tough choices having to be made with some of the vets. Seemed to hint around that a trade or 2 is not out of the question as some of the younger players develope. I took this to mean that if Darko comes around then there will be room made for him but it can apply in Prince's case as well.

    Just goes to show that things can still be dynamic and Dumars will not hurt the long term health of the team to please some agents unrealistic demands.
     
  13. rdang

    rdang First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    I coulnd't picture us without Tayshaun in the front court...but if he's asking for a max contract it's going to happen. We'll definately miss his lanky arms and his defensive speciality; but he's replaceable. If Darko keeps playing the way he does he can be 3rd-4th scoring option if he steps up his game even more.

    If Tayshaun goes, expect some scary changes to occur in the next 2-4 years.
     
  14. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,158
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think Sam has the right take on this. Let's not make too much of a few scattered quotes, especially in a league where guys say far more antagonistic things during contract negotiations.

    Small forward in the event of a lengthy Tay absence would probably be Evans.
     
  15. crastinator

    crastinator First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Detroit
    Strangest part is - he is not even doing it right now during negotiations. You'd think if he really believes he is worth a max contract he'd be playing more aggressive. Look at Sheed, who is already paid and playing for pride in meaningless games.
     
  16. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,901
    Likes Received:
    860
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    16Mile....dude get over LB PLEASE!!!!!! If you don't like a coach you crap it up while he's here like Delfino did. You don't shine under the dude and then crap when he leaves, that actually supports a theory that you hated to see the departure of the coach.

    This is business and Tay's agent is the negotiator. His job is to get the most he can for his client. With most agent's it always comes down to my guy has to get what so and so (with similiar skills, numbers and age got). Tay's contract will be a derivative of Larry Hughes and Joe Johnson's deals. They're probably arguing over the sixth year, which Detroit has being Tay's home squad, that would push Tay's contract to be worth around $60 million.
     
  17. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,780
    Likes Received:
    85

    Tayshaun letting his agent do the talking for him. This is very bad. He needs to tell his agent to knock it off before he alienates people. These agents get greedy and it is the players job to cut these guy's off. I personally don't think he is worth 50 million but it is a fair deal market wise but 60 or 70 million??? Please... I figuired we would not be able to keep everybody and maybe Tay is the one guy that gets away. For 70 million we can get a lot more production than what Tay is providing.
     
  18. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    2,993
    Likes Received:
    54
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    my feelings exactly. :nod:
     
  19. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,901
    Likes Received:
    860
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    Spoken like a true HOMER. Who's suppossed to negotiate for him?? His Mom?? It's the job of Duffy to get Tay a deal comparable to what his peers of similiar skills and age get...period...that's HIS JOB.
     
  20. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    2,993
    Likes Received:
    54
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    I agree that it is his job to get him as much money as possible....but that doesn't mean Tay has to take it. I'm sure the agents of players like Shaq and Garnett are not doing cartwheels when their clients proclaim they want to restructure their deals for less money for the team's success. Nor does an agent of a player like Mike Finley jump for joy when told that he doesn't care what the market rate is he rather play for a contender. To say that Tay's agent is doing the talking is to give Tay credit for understanding the opportunity he has here in this city. This is a classy franchise that one should be proud to be a part of...instead of asking for the world because the market dictates so.

    Agents are in this business to make money, period. Championships and sentimental value mean absolutely nothing.

    Tay should definitely be paid, but to ask to be the highest paid Piston is absolutely ludacris. The Pistons offer is fair. If Tay signs with an inferior ball club/managment he'll be begging to be back in Detroit under Joe's vision a year later.
     

Share This Page