Pistons and free agents

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by mikhail1973, Jul 1, 2010.

  1. tads

    tads First Round Draft Pick

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    I think thats it for the pistons.
    The free agents were all insanely over-priced, the leftovers are, well, leftovers.

    For us to get Cousins we would have to lose all of our young wings, and we should have done that, but it's too late now. We made the best of a 7 pick, Monroe will be a nice low post set up man, a vlade to someone's webber, not a game changing big as prescribed.

    Tayshaun and Rip's trade value has gone from experienced wing players to championship mercenaries, they only make sense going to teams in "WIN-NOW" mode. I can't imagine a trade where a team realistically says "Yes you can have our talented big, we need rip/tay's experience on the wing" and I used to love imagining those trades.

    The only thing we can hope for is that the team gets better by learning to play as a team, with each individual giving their all night in and night out while the coach designs a system that gets the most of their abilities.

    ... What ... It could happen!
     
  2. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    Patience please Amigos.

    Training camp is still months away - the free agent dust is just settling, so there's still plenty of time to make trades. Joe's said there have been lots of conversations going on.

    Also, some of the most interesting personnel changes this season will be from within. How much will Stuckey improve in his first season ever in year two of any pro system? How good will Bynum, Gordon and CV be if they're healthy? How much will JJ improve? (I'll bet he makes subtle improvements that turn him closer into a Bruce Bowen like player for us). How much will Daye improve? (This guy has the potential to become a great player). Will Summers or White start forcing the issue and earn PT? How will Monroe on the floor change the way the Pistons play? (Our first point center could alter everything about how this team approaches things - including influencing personnel decisions for the next decade).

    And at some point Tay and then Rip will be moving on.
     
  3. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    you know, for spoiled in this forum this is not enough.

    I dunno why folks here assumes that all team issues are fixable in one summer or so.

    IMO, this team won't contend next 2-3 years for sure and therefore there is no need for rushed judgements or trades.

    some ppl act here like the real GMing is more fantasy trade than fantasy trade itself.
     
  4. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    IMO, that's why it's important to get rid of the non-mentoring veterans as fast as possibile so the youngsters get more minutes.
     
  5. tads

    tads First Round Draft Pick

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    IMO, Young players need the experience of playing against veteran players in practice, their leadership in the lockerroom, and hopefully, a couple trips to the first round of the playoffs to see what real competition is like.
     
  6. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    The question of the day is: do those veterans actually want to mentor or will they pout about minutes, roles, and generally be more of a hindrance than help?
     
  7. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    I believe that all comes from the passion for the team. We all want to be the best and win every year. Some have more patience, some have less. I think that people should take a step back and realize that no team in the salary cap environment can stay on the top for long. Most of the teams that are good now have been bad and accumulated draft picks which after strong dfaft years now come to a fruition. I am talking about Thunder, Heat, Cavs, Nuggets, even Spurs. Heck, I want to win this year too, and I would love for the youngsters to develop quickly, and for Joe to trade Tay, Rip, and Wilcox and get a starting center and PG in return, but let's get real -it's not happening. So we sbould be patient and let things run their course. Sure, it is OK to criticize, but lets just be reasonable.
     
  8. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Great point. That's why any trade Joe might pull off will have to be at least a 3-team deal. A contender getting Rip and/or Tay, sending scraps (read: capp space) to a non-contending third team, and us getting what we want from that third team.

    For example, let's say Thunder is pushing the envelope by the trade deadline and the Clippers disappoint as usual despite Griffin's breakout season. Clips will need cap space to resign Griffin and OKC might be looking for a good perimeter player. Then we can send Rip to OKC, they would send scraps (Cook & Peterson for instance) to the Clips and we get Kaman.

    I'm not saying this is a good trade for anyone involved. Just an example of how many stars must line up for Joe to be able to unload Rip's contract.
     
  9. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    There is certainly merit to that argument but I think the utility of playing on the same team as a veteran is pretty diminishing. The first season is probably gold worth with all the small tricks you learn and all the tips but how much do you learn the second season? Definatly something but is the utility of this greater than the utility of more playing minutes? I highly doubt it but I really don't have a clue. :MusicBigGrin:

    This is why I want to see Tay and Rip gone and Wallace stay. That and, oh yeah, the logjams. :)
     
  10. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    And that is what Joe is paid to know... I honestly think that if he feels there going to be good "teamates" then maybe there not going to be in a hurry to trade them.

    Like it was stated we arn't winning anything this year so I'd rather wait and see how our young players are going to pan out and then use them for possible trades to shore up what it looks like we will need help in.

    Most teams are going to think they have fixed there teams going into training camp and we probably will get more for our chips come trade deadline time. Unless Joe can get a true center in a trade this summer that has a chance to start here for the next 5-8 years then I'm good at holding onto the chips.

    This is all asuming that the vets are ok with teaching and having there mins cut abit, now if there going to demand anything...... ship them out of town yesterday for a bag of chips for Joe to eat while he watches summer league.
     
  11. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Is there anyone out there that feels the Pistons have addressed a (as in any) issue with the team this offseason?
     
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I think Joe thought the offseason ended once the draft was over. lol
     
  13. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    I for one think we have found our starting 4 for the next 10 years. He is going to have up and downs this year, but I am happy with him being on the court 30 mins a night learning... If we go small (and not Rip at the 3 small) I like him at the 5 for short mins.

    I'm willing to give a half a season to stuckey at the point, I want to see him play for a coach 2 years in a row...

    I like what I am hearing (I know its all spin in the summer) about the work the kids have been putting in this summer.

    I think we need another quality guard before we are ready to compete for titles again. Asuming Stuckey plays as well as I think he will he and Ben will make 2/3 of what I think will be a good backcourt. Maybe white can be the third? Time will tell, I am one of the few that have not been sold on Bynum being a long term answer here. Depending on how Stuckey improves this year the 3rd guard might need to be more a true point... but thats to be seen in my eyes. I'm also assuming that Rip is gone by the end of the season.

    I like the combination of Daye and JJ at the 3 going forward.

    CV is a good player to have on the team if he's healthy and willing to accept coming off the bench behind Monroe.

    Our lack of true center that can give us 30 mins a night is our biggest hole at the moment IMO. Ben I think has 2 years in him at limited mins, and what he brings to the kids in way of mindset can not be underestimated. But by the time were ready to make our move were going to need two men that can control the paint.

    If the team shapes up like it looks to be, what we really need is a 24 year old Ben with maybe an inch or two more height. With Monroe getting them easy baskets I don't think we need a gifted offensive Center, but an athletic defensive eraser with good hands to catch some nice passes on rolls to the basket.

    One thing that makes me think that Joe is trying to trade Rip and Prince is the fact I don't remember hearing one thing about what they are doing this summer. I think Max fits into this group of players too... I think we have no use for him as we relearn how to push for a title. I think he's a great energy player for a vet team, but JJ has taken that spot on the pistons IMO.
     
  14. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    There's nothing left. This was/is an unprecedented summer where there were serious roster shakeups, it was a summer where you needed to strike while the iron was hot, we didn't. It's not often two 20/10 PF's under the age of 30 become available and we did nothing.

    Why is that the question of the day? I think we all know the answer by now. Look with Rip AND Tay on this team our young guys are not going to develop, they NEED TO GO!!! We don't even need anything or anyone in return, I'll take the trade exceptions and Capp Spayce.

    We have 4 guiards that need/deserve solid minutes, that means we have guards eating mins at the SF spot to accomodate them, which means Austin don't play. To accomodate the SF's, they eat into the PF minutes, which means GM, CV, JJ...one of them is getting left out, unless you're going to give minutes to CV and GM at the 5. JJ, Daye, Monroe, Gordon, they need to play and be integral to our team. Folks are preaching to "Be patient"....."We're not winning right away anyway". I am being patient, I know we're not going to win right away, but if Joe doesn't get the past out of here, we're slowing the development of our future. Again, if you're losing AND your young guys are siting, your losing twice!

    And NOBODY can convince me that not one single opportunity to move Rip off this roster has not came Joe's way, he's too jaded into thinking that he's going to get a good player back. Getting rid of Rip and Tay will be addition by subtraction at this point.

    NOPE! The most important thing to do right now is get rid of Rip and Tay, for a pack of Strawberry Jolly Ranchers.
     
  15. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    It's more likely that he's trying to make sure those two go to a nice team (a la Billups to Denver).
     
  16. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    if that's the problem I'm gonna have to throw up
     
  17. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    I wouldn't be suprised if the desire to "do right by those guys" is one of the items that come into play when exploring trade possibilities. It is quite conceivable that Joe's working with more constraints than his peers because of this.

    If this is indeed the case, I wonder if this behavior helps him at all when recruiting players.
     
  18. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Of course it helps. Don't you remember how fast Joe was able to sign CV and Ben Gordon last summer.......LOL!
     
  19. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    :pound:
    Seriously, I really hope this isn't JoeD's way of working; it may be nice from a moral standpoint, but this is pro basketball. And judging from the last FA's Joe could attract, I don't think it pays off to make players think they'll be shiped to a nice team if they don't want to be Pistons players no more...
     
  20. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    :pound: Thanks! I needed that.
     

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