Pistons for sale?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Nemo, Jan 17, 2010.

  1. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Yup. What a waste of money that would be. They can play at the Palace, at the Silverdome, at Ford Field, Chrysler Arena, outside at a park. Time to be thrifty.
  2. Blue

    Blue First Round Draft Pick

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    Not so. You and I definitely agree on the three points that I spelled out, but your argument is that those three points negatively affect attendance for pro sports games, and I’m saying that they have no effect. I don’t see how I’m “spelling it out” for you.

    Apparently you did miss it. Here is what the Wikipedia entry has to say (it has sources):

    Detroit Lions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So the Lions sold out every game at Ford Field until the 0-16 season. They also had struggles selling out the Dome when they had Barry (and a decent team). The Lions are also 34-94 since 2001. Should they be selling out games?

    I’m sorry did I miss something? The Tigers have always played in Detroit. This does not support your argument.

    So even though their arena is in Detroit (and it is the worst arena of our 4 major venues), they have strong attendance because the product on the ice is completely elite. So, as it turns out, you can develop a rabid fanbase that will come down to Detroit (despite all its problems) if you put a quality product out there. This is exactly what I am arguing and exactly what you are arguing against.

    Proactive vs. reactive. Your approach is reactive, mine is proactive.

    Good businessmen know that customers are not going to donate money to you until you can come up with a nice product. You create a quality product or service, market it, and customers will pay you. If you continue to improve, you can enjoy repeat business as well as business growth. The Cubans and Busses of the world are proactive; that is why they are successful businessmen.

    The WCF’s of the world do not know that, so their franchises are a joke. They are lucky though, because they are still subsidized by the strength of their leagues, so they stay in business.

    That is why I hope the Pistons are sold to a proactive owner who is committed putting a fine product on the court. The business will take care of itself, whether the team stays in Aurburn Hills, or the new owner decides to move the facility to Detroit.
  3. Mossberg

    Mossberg Bench Warmer 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Agree 100%. No public money.

    I would absolutely LOVE for the P's to play downtown, but not at the expense of the taxpayers.

    I'd rather drive the extra 30 miles to Auburn Hills to the Palace instead if public money needed to be involved.
  4. redrocker1055

    redrocker1055 Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    Yepp, it sure does have sources, and every one of them link back to Wikipedia... Hmmm???

    What? I'm sorry I was busy editing a Wikipedia page... I'll be right with you!

    Apparently you did as I never said they didn't. Maybe a page on Wikepedia said I did, but I assure you I didn't!

    Sure it supports my argument. The Tigers have had maybe 5 successful attendance seasons in the past 30 years. How does 5 for 30 not support my argument?

    Sure, at lest in the case of the Red Wings. But why isn't that the case for the Lions and Tigers? The tigers were in a pennant race and they still couldn't sell out. But I concede you're right about the Red Wings, you're completely right about 1 of the three teams in Detroit... Congratulations!

    I don't understand how you could get that from what I said. I would call assembling a good competitive team to insure people buy tickets as Proactive. But I guess you can call it what you want, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions and I would rather be prepared to deal with it then guess how hot it's gonna be!!!

    Exactly, but how do you pay for that product without the capital form sales or investors. How do you get investors with a less then par product???

    I don't exactly understand why you keep making my argument for me but present it as me being wrong? You're reminding me of an ex girlfriend... Amanda, is that you?

    Actually Cuban along with every other successful businessmen I can think of are more reactive in business. In fact Cuban made his fortune by reacting to the dot com boom. In the same way Warren Buffett made his by reacting to the ups and downs of the stock market! Besides all that Cuban has stated many times that the Mavericks do not make money. That would be why I used him as an example. I used Buss because he has the best team money can buy and pays heavy cap fines and seems to be fine with it!

    Can we agree not to talk about Ford? He doesn't deserve it!

    I have no problem with someone being proactive. However I've learned from experience that when it comes to a business you have to learn to be both. Sure be positive, think of the future and be hopeful but you'd better be prepared to react when the &%^$ hits the fan, as it always does. I've also learned that no business takes care of it's self, especially one's with a big part of the revenue being determined by performance.
  5. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    The underlying theme I am seeing behind some of the posts is the argument that Detroit is a city that had a good run, but now it's all over and it's time to just flush the toilet and move on. This is extremely offensive to me. There is no other city that comes close to Detroit's status in Michigan. Without Detroit, Michigan is off the map. Just like without Chicago, Illinois would be off the map, and without Philly, PA would be off the map. Without Detroit, Michigan would be like Ohio, and Good Lord, nobody would want that! :)

    Instead of despising it, all Michiganders should embrace Detroit and try to bring it back to what it was. It can be done. New York City had one of the worst crime rates in the world. It was a dangerous city to be in. It took a lot of effort and dedication from the populace to clean it up. Now it's one of the safer megapolises in the world. I don't see why the same can't be done for Detroit.
  6. Blue

    Blue First Round Draft Pick

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    Here is a link to an article that confirms a 50 game sellout streak:

    End of sellout streak doesn't surprise Lions players | Detroit Lions - - MLive.com


    You can’t say definitively that the attendance at the games was hurt because the stadium is located in Detroit; that's how it doesn't support your argument.

    Detroit Tigers Attendance, Stadiums, and Park Factors - Baseball-Reference.com

    It looks like based on those numbers, the only years that are really weak are the 90’s, when the Tigers weren’t really competitive. But it doesn’t matter, because your argument is that if the stadium were moved to somewhere in the suburbs attendance would be up across the board. You have no data to back that up, because the team has always played in the D.


    Are you talking about last season’s pennant race? 31,693 fans drove down to the Dirty D and filled the stands on average for 81 home games (see the link above). With a capacity of 40,950, that means that the stadium was about 77% full on average. That’s a strong season, even before you factor in the global economic crisis.


    I would call it proactive as well. For some reason I did not get this reading your original post, but we apparently agree here.


    Huh?

    :nerd2:

    I think I can bow out of this debate here, since I can’t really say it anymore clearly. The attendance of the arenas is not well correlated with the location of the arena, whether it is in Detroit or the suburbs. Even the Spartan faithful will drive to the D from Lansing to support their team. I haven’t seen a compelling argument otherwise.
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    The missing variable here is ticket price.

    I don't know what the answer would be, but looking at a correlation between revenues and location would be a better measure than attendance and location.

    If you charge a low enough price for tickets, you can usually fill the place. A 77% utilization rate with aggressive ticket pricing might be a better result for a franchise than a huge sellout streak with cheap tickets and lots of give aways. This revenues measure would also take into account the huge money making category of luxury suites as well as concessions and merchandise, etc.
  8. hitafreethrow

    hitafreethrow Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    yes the new 1 billion dollar stadium that Jerry Jones just built for his DALLAS Cowboys team, in nearby Arlington Texas.
  9. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Stop right there! You've obviously never been to Wilkes-Barre International Airport. :MusicBigGrin:

    [​IMG]
  10. hitafreethrow

    hitafreethrow Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    So why is Indiana still on the map?
  11. DesmoPiston

    DesmoPiston First Round Draft Pick

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    Hail Detroit!!!

    I grew up in Detroit, went to college in Wayne State Universirty... and I hate every time a douche bag calls Detroit a low-life city...
  12. Griffin

    Griffin First Round Draft Pick

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    I'd like to reframe my initial point for posting on this topic since I've been sidetracked by a blowhard.

    This is a unique opportunity for the Pistons & Red Wings to work together. The Wings need a better facility and the Pistons might be in a position to partner with them. It's a rare alignment of opportunity given the passing of Mr. Davidson right around the time the Wings' lease at the Joe is expiring.

    Given this rare alignment of opportunity, I thought we might discuss what a joint venture between the two organizations might look like. Where would the stadium be located, for instance? The Wings have been talking about building a stadium for years, and if they go forward and build a new facility, why wouldn't a new Piston ownership consider sharing? Could the teams coexist in one building? What would it be like to see go to a Piston game downtown?

    These are the interesting questions here. Talking about Detroit's crime rate just seems a lot less interesting to me and much more irrelevent to this discussion.

    Oh and btw, I defend what should rightfully be defending about Detroit. It is frustrating and crime riddled and poverty stricken. That doesn't change the good and importance of Detroit. I am not an apologist and in fact I do not and never have lived in the city.
  13. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I grew up there too, spent 25 years there before escaping. I love Detroit, but right now it is just a nice place to visit as I can never move back, because it does not even seen like the place that knew in the 70's ~~ my formative years.

    I often wonder why the Pistons did not spend that money back in the 80's and build an arena in Detroit?? There were enough abandoned lots even in the 80's to find space.....You may not have gotten all of those 22K sellouts they had initially leading up to the teal years, but if you built an arena downtown Detroit, those suburbanites would have still come down and rub shoulders with those city folks, just like they do here in downtown LA @the Staples Center where we got some real rich celebrity types standing next to some supposed poor undesirables at the urinal...

    In fact don't they do it now at the Joe, Comerica and Ford's junkyard??
  14. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Here in LA, the Lakers, Clippers, Kings and Sparks all share the same arena (Staples Center) and three of those teams play during the same season. Since AEG Entertainment owns the facility, I can't recall if the teams threw in some cash or not, and I can't remember if the public was taxed or not.

    Just this past Monday, the Clippers had a game a 12:30PM and the Lakers had one a 7:30PM at the Staples as it takes the floor crew less than 2 hours to swap floors. They even have hockey games and Basketball games in the same day and once about 5 -6 years ago the Kings, Lakers and Clippers all played on the same day. (The ice is underneath the floor).

    I don't see why the Wings and Pistons could not get a computer program to schedule games so there is no conflict:sssh:
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    This is addressed to everyone participating in this thread.

    @PF, friendship and respect come before personal opinions and arguments.

    Name calling is a violation of the rules. I don't care who did it, or who started it. I only care that it stops now.

    There are opportunities to have really productive discussions with this topic. You know how we do.
  16. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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  17. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I met the Dalai Lama.

    He's not as much fun or as insightful as you guys.

    Let's just shoot for Lindsey Hunter high on diet pills, instead of passive-aggressive Serbian OG.
  18. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Big hitter, the Lama. Not much of a tipper though.
  19. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    There won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness.
  20. Nemo

    Nemo The Great Predictor Forum Donor

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    This all started when you thretened to send people to Montana. :)

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