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Pistons/Magic 2nd Round Game 3 Wed May 7 8PM

Discussion in '2008 Playoffs' started by max, May 6, 2008.

  1. max

    max All-Star

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    No its not bordeline psychotic its someone's opinion.

    Whats puzzling and painfull is watching both Theo and even Walter Herman promoted above Amir. I don't know, has it worked? Who played more in the reg season Herman or Amir? Who has shown that he can play D and is capable of giving you some offensive boards and some points in the paint?

    Not saying its why we lost, it just does not make any sense.
     
  2. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    At least he put Amir in for some G/T.
    Sad...Good/hopeful...sad
     
  3. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Notice how well Herrmann guarded Turkaglu in the first half. I thought that was a pretty good adjustment to give Tay some rest. Also, Ratliff was pretty effective last game.

    I've never thought it made sense to put in Hayes AND Herrmann though, as Flip did in the 2nd half. And I will always advocate Amir Johnson.

    I honestly think that Orlando is a perfect team for Amir to play against. They have some tall 3-point shooters and only 1 big man. Let Amir use his speed and length to play help defense and still be able to close out on Turk or Lewis when they pick off the primary defender.


    I know that we've all pointed out Hayes' flaws in the reg season, but did anyone expect him to be THIS ineffective in the playoffs? He's making Mo Evans/ Carlos Delfino look like greener grass right now.
     
  4. pistonsloyalist

    pistonsloyalist First Round Draft Pick

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    Yes, giving Theo and Hermann all of that playing time in place of Amir made no sense. A few minutes into the fourth, at the very least, Amir should have been brought into the game. Nothing else was working offensively or defensively, but Flip just was unable or unwilling to make any changes.
     
  5. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    That opinion expressed by Lee is really out there. There is absolutely no factual basis to back up his opinion.

    Flip may or may not like Dumars. But to suggest that he would intentionally do something to jeopardize his career and the team out of some petty dislike for his boss is ludicrous. You don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

    I agree with Gazoo. Flip's just a crappy coach (my opinion). It doesn't go any deeper than that.
     
  6. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    It really is baffling. I mean to the point of just being dumb-founded. While i don't believe Flip is doing it to spite Joe D,

    Like you said he got PT this year, was complimented by Flip. His energy, D, and just general awesomeness was even waxed poetic by DET beat writers. The exact problems we were having are the exact things he can fix/help with.

    Yet now he can't even get time in front of Hermann. You could say Flip just does not understand the value of defense which is true b/c even with the progress he's made with AA, he still can't seem to correlate stopping penetration with AA and sub accordingly, but in this type of game for Amir to not see any time ?

    Amir even talked about matching up with Young. The newspapers talked about it. Flip talked about using our young athlethic players to match Philly's SF's playing PF. Hello, Rashard Lewis.

    Max is great, but if Max is not great, there's someone equally (more IMO) great on the bench. This should be our strength having 2 young athletic bigs not a hinderance.

    I mean it's reaching Darko levels of frustration at this point to where sometimes i can't watch the game b/c i just don't want to deal with the wacked out rotations and stress myself out.

    If there was a reason, "I think he sucks, I'm allergic to him, He killed my dog" anything at this point i'd feel slightly better just knowing.

    I love winning these PO games, but i can't help feeling like it's just a ticking time bomb, or a band-aid to cover up the flaws in our rotation.

    When push comes to shove, Flip chokes, and then the players' talent overcomes or someone breaks their nose and we get a better line-up by default. I really don't want to see us go down 3-2, and then hear talk well maybe we should try Amir, and i really hope Chauncey's OK. I don't want to hear we lost this series b/c of that and Flip having an excuse, and i don't want to lose this series in general.

    Has the PHO game been deleted from Flip's brain TIVO? b/c i'm just out of analysis at this point.
     
  7. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    I have been quiet as I didn't want to gripe when we win. But I was not impressed with game 2. No, a team shouldn't be allowed to hit 7 straight 3's any more than Le Bron should have been allowed to go off last year in game 5. They got a bit into our offense in game 2 as well.

    This game--no adjustments by the coaches. Orlando was pushing us around even before the Billips injury. And Billips was trying to do too much on that play. If he is out, we are in trouble even for this series. No, I don't feel we can really replace him right now.

    No way this Orlando team should be able to score like they are. No way.

    Question on all our minds: Is Billips coming back soon and at what capacity if he is?

    Second, they have adjusted to us. Can our staff figure the Magic out? They are not chumps anymore. We have to make them play like chumps...
     
  8. pistonsloyalist

    pistonsloyalist First Round Draft Pick

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    Even if it is the case Flip is ignoring Joe D's wishes regarding playing time for Amir and Afflalo, either in the playoffs as a whole or in this particular game, I agree with Darth that it is not plausible to think that Flip's motive would be "hatred" of Joe. Why not just stubbornness? Or a belief that he knows better?
     
  9. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    This is exactly what i was worried about. Ron Jeremy is not an idiot.
     
  10. max

    max All-Star

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    Does it really matter what the reasons are as the results are the same?

    Yep, same story. Matching down to them. Instead of using their 2 SF's against them we are matching down.

    I missed the 1st quarter. Did the Billups injury look like an accident or was Nelson trying to trip him up?
     
  11. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Ok I still haven't seen the game yet, but did we have anybody out there on our team that even resembled Kobe?? I mean some body who could slice to the hoop and get the basket or foul??

    I did check out out the boxscore and they killed us from the paint 49-26 and beyond the arc 33-6.

    Why is it our little guys are attacking Howard and getting blocked, but our bigs aren't attacking and getting him in foul trouble?? It would be eazy to neutralize him if Sheed and Dice would play and shoot around the hoop instead of the turnaround Sheed fade shots or the catch and shoot Dice shots from 15 ft away.

    The Magic got off over 24 shots from the 3pt line in games 2 and 3 and hit 11 in each game. Why are we double teaming Howard and leaving Lewis open...by the way who was guarding shard tonight?? Dude hit 5-6 three balls..:yukpuke:

    Don't the coaches and players know this teams MO? They will shoot the 3 as long as you leave them open. Turk will come down the floor and jack up a 3 just like CB. The defense has to recognize this and stop daring them to shoot the three. Play them tight and make them take the bad shot.

    Also why do we keep going to this one on one back down to the hoop? No one ever helps out and we wind up taking a bad shot as the clock runs down.....remember I didn't see tonights game, but I did watch the Lakers pass the ball around to the open man tonight and hit them. When Prince or Sheed attempt to post up /back down their man to the hoop, the other floor players stop and watch on the other side of the hoop and NEVER come over to the other side to receive what might be a pass and an open look at the hoop.

    Somebody tell me what Walter Hermann did tonight?? 1 board and 4 points. Did he play any defense? Probably not if they scored 111 points..... Put Amir in there Flip...Yeah he might get a couple of fouls and get dunked on by Howard, but at the same time he might get 2-3 blocks himself and I guarantee 7 times as many boards as Fabio gets...Flip are you reading this!!
     
  12. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    We did this in the 1st game and then . . .

    Also Max, ppl are saying that Nelson deliberately turned his ankle so he could hook him and pull him down. I've seen the play a few times. His ankle is turned but whether that was intentional or just a result of falling i couldn't tell you.
     
  13. pistonsloyalist

    pistonsloyalist First Round Draft Pick

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    No, it probably does not matter very much. I suppose it might be more difficult for Joe D. to exercise some positive influence over Flip if Flip were moved by hatred rather than mulishness.
     
  14. pistonsloyalist

    pistonsloyalist First Round Draft Pick

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    Well, Stuck had a few good drives and Rip made some nice short jumpers, though he also forced a few shots and hogged the ball too much on four or five possessions. Through the first three, I thought Stuck had a very nice game.

    We started out badly and fell behind (I believe) 12 to 2 very early, and were behind 54-42 at the half. But then we went on a very nice run in the third quarter, closed the gap to three late in the third, and were only behind by four at the end of that period. So at the end of the third, I thought the Pistons were still in the game and would have some momentum to start the fourth. But Orlando opened the fourth with a big run, and I think we went the first three or four minutes of the fourth without hitting a single basket.

    Orlando put on a real offensive show in the fourth, and they were scoring from all over the court. We were not guarding the Magic's three-point shooters as closely as we should have in that quarter, but on the other hand I don't recall many of their threes being wide-open. Dooling was very effective for Orlando in the second half, and that was a factor for Orlando too.
     
  15. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    Lee, I'd like to see your proofs for "vendetta" - do you know how much is media ready to pay for such story?

    Whatever, if some of you think here that Amir is a world saver, and can cover many holes at the same time, then be aware that even DPOY Garnett is not able for that. Most of their treys werr contested and if your bigs(dice, maxi, sheed ) are quiet, you have to make your jumpshots. Plain and simple.

    Only "adjustment" was needed for that game: very good shooting night.
     
  16. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    No one thinks Amir is a world saver. All ppl want is for him to get a chance at guarding Lewis or making an impact, but he'd have to play for those things to happen.
     
  17. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    I absolutely do not care who played or who not. All what counts is who won and who lost.

    Whining who didn't get playing time in a lost cause ( ok, they still tried to win) is a very minor issue, at least in my opinion.

    Our bench can play well against of lottery teams at the end of the season, where intensity level is already low, and even then everything has work for them.

    Starters didn't get it done and as long as davidson refuses to pay lux tax, our bench is filled with veteran minimum or rookie contracts.

    I do not mind of Amir playing but there are more serious issues now.
     
  18. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    A winnable game that was lost when they started doing nothing but forcing into Rip, Tay, and Sheed in iso's to start the 4th. Rip and Tayshaun were good on those at times, but when they unravel it happens fast, and Flip has to notice it. It starts with a turnover, and ends with forced shots and more turnovers. Orlando has no one who can stop Rodney from getting into the paint, yet it was always the last option.

    I also think Flip needed to give Afflalo a few more minutes in the 2nd half early on. Hiss perimeter D is absolutely critical on a team that seems to constantly have mental lapses.

    One more thing I will reiterate, that I have already said in the past. The mis-match at PF is not in our favor. It's time to start thinking about giving more minutes to guys like Walter or Amir, who feel a little bit more comfortable on the perimeter defensively. Guys like Dice and Ratliff are terrible at challenging Turkoglo and Rashard's 3-point shots.
     
  19. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Starting with the second most important thing first (perhaps) Rip, Tayshaun and Rasheed need to lose this little "club" mentality where they dominate the ball in between them and act like the other guys are supposed to be invisible out there.

    Seriously, after the Magic jumped up on us by double digits I spent the rest of the game counting passes before shots, and toward the end I was pretty ticked off at the starters.

    If this "mannequin offense" is what Flip is so famous for, somebody fetch me a bucket and about 10 feet of rope. I'm not even going to delude myself into thinking a championship will come out of that kind of ball movement (or lack thereof).

    First and foremost this team played craptastic defense. And you know what? I happen to think that if you reward the guys like Afflalo and Maxey by passing them the ball every so often, perhaps they are content to cover your lousy perimeter defending butts when you let your guy penetrate at will.

    Perhaps if the Magic truly believed that the Pistons would do something other than play two man basketball (3 tops) while the other guys stand perfectly still....
    perhaps then some shots are less contested resulting in a made basket.. and you have time to actually set your defense on the other end.


    Rip is a ballhog. He calls his own number like he's Kobe. He kills our rhythm every time he's allowed free reign.

    And Tayshaun Prince.

    Will he ever pass the ball to a teammate that is posting up?

    Of course he'll pass it to Sheed, because Sheed will beat him down, but anybody else.....Tayshaun pulls the "I can't pass it to you...come set a screen for me so I can run more clock and throw up some junk....oh yea...I might throw the ball to you with three seconds to go..thanks."

    Two great big continuity killers right there. And they were flying their selfish flags full mast for this little gem of a blowout.

    Please someone get rid of this sorry excuse for a coach so we can get a guy in here that isn't afraid to put the bench to the behinds of these guys when they quit playing the right way.
     
  20. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    No boards no rings. Nelson and Evans again combine for 10, and second game in a row Nelson is the second leading rebounder on the team. Pistons' guards must box out or you allow a very limited offensive team to play to its strengths.

    Shooting better than 31% in the second and fourth would help a lot too.

    If Rip and Tay can stay in the offense with Stuckey running the point then losing Billups for a bit won't be the end of the world. So far though, they haven't shown any inclination to let him run the team, and the sets get one dimensional really quickly with Tay or Rip at the helm.
     

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