Pistons sign Jarvis Hayes

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by himat, Aug 16, 2007.

  1. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    3,759
    Likes Received:
    2
    The Pistons won't get a C in free agency. The ones that are left are not as good as Nazr. The only way the Pistons improve at C is through a trade.
  2. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,397
    Likes Received:
    2,754
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Or sign Webber or Davis.
  3. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,361
    Likes Received:
    1
    If you read the scouting reports about him regarding his shooting, they say he is a good shooter with a horrible first step (hence not many free throws which you see in his stats), therefore he settles for a lot of pull up jumpers from 18 feet or more. Most guys who do that all the time are not going to have high shooting percentages.

    The question is, is that lack of a quick first step a weakness he has always had or just something that he has had since his two knee operations? If it is the latter it might be possible to improve it if his knee (s) get stronger this year in his second year after the last knee operation. We should know more during the exhibition season.

    :hoops:
  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,397
    Likes Received:
    2,754
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Let's take a closer look at his shooting.

    Most guys shoot a higher percentage from close range. Most guys have an overall eFG, which is greater than the eFG on their outside jumpshots.

    For instance, Tay has an eFG of .461 on his J's, but .501 overall (because he shoots a very high perentage from close range).

    So, a player like Jarvis, who rarely gets to the hoop, will have an unusually low looking overall field goal percentage, even though they are very good shooters.

    When you look at the actual breakout, Hayes has an eFG of .431 on jumpers compared with a .471 overall eFG%.

    This means that he shoots worse than most of our starters. He shoots a little worse than Sheed. The most similar comparison is actually Delfino... but Hayes is slightly worse.

    Still, he is in the ball park and way better than Murray, Hunter, etc. And let's face it... if he were better, we wouldn't be picking him up right now.
  5. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,425
    Likes Received:
    544
    Location:
    Flint
    Throw out the stats. Hayes is coming off a couple of major injuries, and he is really too young, with too little history in the league to judge what he can do yet. I don't see any report on what he signed for, but I imagine its the minimum. This is a low risk signing that can't hurt us. Hayes either outplays someone to get minutes, or we cut him with little loss.
  6. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,301
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    NY, NY
    A significant downgrade from Delfino.
    A hindrance to Afalo and Meija getting PT.
    A hindrance to Amir getting PT at the 3, meaning Amir and JMax competing for space at the 4.

    Dumb, dumb move.
    Flip may love it. He gets the spot up corner shooter he lost with Mo. But at least Mo could take it to the hoop.

    Biggest concern, this guy's stats have gotten worse every year since his rookie year. Ugly.
  7. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,385
    Likes Received:
    809
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    its a cost cutting move all told.
  8. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    14,970
    Likes Received:
    3,030
    Location:
    Michigan
    I don't see how this is a dumb move. I agree with Lee. It seems to be a low-risk move. It creates more competition. If Hayes is better than some current Pistons, put him out on the floor. If not, no harm done.
  9. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,425
    Likes Received:
    544
    Location:
    Flint
    I would not get quite so negative about this pickup. First, Hayes is a guy that can actually bother James with his length. 2nd, by playing Amir and JMAX more at power forward, it leaves Dyess and Sheed playing more center, cutting out Mohammed from the equation, which is a good thing. As for those stats getting worse, a lot of that is from injuries.

    With that said, this signing could be used as an excuse by Flip Saunders not play Mejia at small forward, and yet Hayes is a young player still himself. If Mejia can outplay Hayes at small forward, but gets no time there, hey, thats a bad coach, no fault of Hayes. And if Amir is not playing, while again being more capable than Hayes at small forward, again, thats a bad coach. At this point, we just have to hope that either Flip plays his best players, or that Dumars shows him the door soon. We can't miss an opportunity to pick up a quality player just trying to idiot proof a team; and Hayes will be a good pickup if his injuries are behind him.
  10. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,301
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    NY, NY
    Dumb is the whole sequence of events. You don't get rid of your only backup SF, if you don't have a replacement.

    The story was, we got rid of Delfino to open time for the rooks. But obviously, that's not true, cause we just signed Jarvis. This guy stinks. He's a taller, less athletic, worse dribbling version of Mo Evans.

    07 stats:

    Delfino 16.7 mpg, 5.2 ppg, 41.5%, 33% from 3, 3.2 rbg, 1.1 apg, 0.6 spg
    Hayes 20.1 mpg, 7.2 ppg, 41%, 36% from 3, 2.6 rbg, 1.0 apg, .59 apg,

    Stats virtually identical, but Delfino's are on the upswing, Hayes on the downswing; and Delfino does it in less minutes. Plus, CD can play the 2, not as important with Stuckey, but he can still do it.

    The only explanation, is Joe thinks the backup 3 is only going to play 10 mpg this year, where he can play any stiff for, and still get an extra 2 2nd round picks.
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,219
    Likes Received:
    2,078
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    I thought we got rid of Delfino because he stunk! ;)

    Seriously though, I'm pretty sure he kept screaming in spanish, "TRADE ME!"
  12. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,632
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Laurel, Maryland
    I like what Hayes brings to the Pistons. Like some has said, it`s a low risk move that could produce huge returns. I have watched Hyaes play for the Wiz on several occasions. His role on the Pistons will be totally different than what he was asked to do for the Wiz.

    At times over the last couple of years he was called upon to be the second or third option on that team. Obviously he wasn`t ready to step in to do that at this point in his career. Perhaps because of past injuries and/or experience.

    He is very much aware his role on this Piston team will be that of someone fighting for minutes against youngens.

    He plays hard and will challenge Stuckey and Affalo in practice, trust me. If the youngsters don`t bring it during the game, Hayes will surely step in and get his shot.

    Speaking of that MIP Award, hell, pencil in Hayes as a possible winner too........
  13. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,853
    Likes Received:
    786
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    Dang, y'all really don't watch the NBA outside of the Pistons do you. Lee is the most on point of all posters. This is a low-risk move. I have no clue as to why 16Mile think sMejia is going to do anything other than try and make his bones in the d-league this season, Hayes' signing has nothing to do with Mejia's development.

    If you watch some hoops you'd know that Hayes is capable of flat out filling it up. His rookie year he was hitting the J with consistency and could jump out of the gym. Injuries have slowed down a guy that looked like he was going to have a very promising career. This low-risk move allows the team to possibly get a guy ready to redeem himself.
  14. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    170
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Kaohsiung, Taiwan
    IMHO, this was most on point.
  15. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    3,759
    Likes Received:
    2
    If it costs low,which it probably will, then this is a no lose situation . Even if he stinks than someone else will be ahead of him in the rotation. If he performs well than the Pistons will have a steal.
  16. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,712
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    Ft. Belvoir, Virginia
    SInce I am in the D.C. area, I have attended many Wiz games, and I can say with all due confidence that a healthy Jarvis Hayes is gonna be sweeter than a sweet potato pie with brown sugar and honey.

    He has a lights out perimeter shot, his defense is very under rated, the knock on Jarvis is his injury history in which he made some very poor decisions regarding his knee and refusal to have surgery initially.

    I like the move very, very much. WHen he is on, he is on and has a very nice three point shot in which he can swish with great accuracy.

    What ya think Dlev and D4E?
  17. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,632
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Laurel, Maryland
    I also added, I like the addition of Hayes armygirl.

    I think you D4E and myself have an advantage of knowing his game since we are in DC.

    You are right on, we know a healthy Jarvis Hayes can shoot the lights out, forget about FG%.

    I just hope his knees are ok and he gets minutes. If so he will be huge coming off our bench.
  18. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,175
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Washington DC area
    Actually I haven't watched the Wizards very much, so I don't have much to add about him.
  19. pistonsin6

    pistonsin6 First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2006
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    1
    This is actually a good signing, have you guys actually seen Hayes play?

    Carlos Delfino didnt work out for us because Saunders was intent on using him as a spot up shooter when Delfino was more of a slasher- albeit he couldnt finish at the rim.Hayes is more effective when used as a spot up shooter so already thats an upgrade over Delfino.

    Have people forgetton that Mejia was the 57th pick in the draft? He is D-League bound I never expected him to actually play for Detroit. Afflalo and Hayes will likely battle it out for the backup swing positions- and I personally like the idea of having 2 capable SG/SF on the roster to spell Tayshaun and Rip.

    These are Hayes stats from after the all star break.
    9.4 pts, 3.3 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 43%fg, 38%3pt, 89%ft in 24.9 minutes
    Caron Butler and Jamison were out a lot during the period after the break and Hayes really responded to more pt his ppg, fg%, 3pt% all increased.

    In addition, Hayes was signed to a 1 year deal so all in all its a good signing. Low Risk-high reward.
  20. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    3,068
    Likes Received:
    134
    Location:
    Mansfield Center, CT
    Kind of like Blalock?

Share This Page