Pistons Vs Bulls ~ December 16th, 2005

Discussion in 'December 2005 Games' started by Superstarov, Oct 2, 2005.

  1. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Didn't watch the game, so could someone give an unbiased opinion why Darko sucked, and JMax was great when they had the same stats:
    Darko 1-3, 2 boards
    Jmax 1-4, 1 board
     
  2. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Unbiassed?

    Remember, it is the biased guys that are saying Darko did so terribly in his garbage time. How bad can you be said to be doing in garbage time when the game is not on the line. Now, did Darko do anything spectacular? No. Anything really bad? No. Did anyone manage to shoot a shot over him? No. On that rebound attempt he did not get. Darko went up a couple times for it. So he did not get it. Where was the rest of our team while he was keeping the ball alive? Its pretty simple why nobody can point out anything in particular Darko did so bad. Nothing to point out.

    Some people seem to think they can tell by looking at Darko that he is unmotivated. Really. Do they really know Darko that well?

    Darko did just fine in this game. He is a very quick player for getting to plays, and he comes with great height and reach. The Pistons went to Darko in the post, oh, let me count the times. Zero. They let him shoot it once. Gee, I am sure anyone can make themselves look great in garbage time not shooting the ball. I doubt it.

    The only question I got is when the heck is Flip going to start playing Darko more. No need for the score to go up 30 for that to happen.
     
  3. Woody

    Woody All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    My Review of the Subs

    Dyce - as good as advertised. Shoots and rebounds.

    Arroyo - a clone of Chucky Atkins. He thinks he's better than he is. Only difference from Chucky is Arroyo can't shoot the three, but he can penetrate. Dribbles way too much and doesn't get the offense going until the shot clock is way down.

    Delfino - In the wrong league. Would be an all-star in the CBA or NBDL but just a second line player in the NBA. A step slow on D, a little off on his shot, looks to shoot first, run the play second. Just a bit too slow in the head to keep up with the game.

    Evans - A wreck waiting to happen. Wants to shoot first, pass last. Tries to drive and then gets stuffed by the bigs. Not much of a team player.

    Darko - Looks like a seventh-grader playing with the senior high. A softer version of Zelly! Doesn't (can't?) jump. Absolutely no agressiveness on the boards - defensive or offenseive. In love with the 20ft. jump shot. He's way too slow in the head to keep up with the NBA.
    His skill set stops at the shoulders.

    Maxiel - Has some skill, but seems a little heavy-footed. Probably can't cover any decent SF. The opposite of Darko in that he loves to attack the boards. Needs more experience.
     
  4. ojay

    ojay Second Round Draft Pick

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    People do forget that Delfino was THE bench besides Dice last year, before his injury. He was on a great pace for development as a rookie before his injury, and now he's shown here and there this season that he has that potential still.

    Darko just sucks, I'm sorry. I'm all for him becoming a great player, but until he makes the best of his limited minutes, he's in my doghouse. Preseason he looked rejuvenated, early season he looked decent, but ever since the Knicks game and he stunk up his PT, I understand where Flip stands and how he has to regain that PT in practice or garbage time.

    Unlike under LB, I trust Flip with the development of Darko. If he's getting 2nd quarter minutes like he used to in the earlier games, he's obviously on pace on doing something right. Right now, he's obviously not.

    JMax on the other hand was great to see, but he does have 5 big men ahead of him including my favorite, Darko.
     
  5. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    are you being serious woody? some of those comments are pretty bunk...arroyo's been solid this year and had one of his best games as a piston tonight. you say delfino looks to shoot first, yet he had 5 assists tonight. you say evans isn't a team player when he hustles harder than anyone, and managed 2 steals, 4 boards, and 13 points in only 18 minutes.

    was at the game tonight, couldn't tell about the sheed and fire millen chants, but the chants were there throughout. the game was basically a joke...the pistons could have done this to utah if they felt like it...the bulls are just terrible. hell arroyo blocked sweetney's shot in the post (although didn't get credit). unfortunately i missed the exchange with the double technicals. the crowd was more into it than usual.

    not much to say about the game...it was domination. the pistons have 3 of the top what, 20 in the league when it comes to 3-pt %, sheed is a beast, ben showed some post moves, arroyo had one of his best games, delfino is showing he can play significant minutes, mcdyess is money, and so on.

    because the difference is clear. darko looks like the darko from last year far more often than the darko we saw in preseason. it looks like he's upset he doesn't get minutes, so he just hopes to get the ball on the outside and just jacks up shots. maxiel on the other hand goes for rebounds, is quicker, more aggressive, and has a better post game. on one of the possessions he was at the 3 pt. line and made a pass down low, and the guy put up a quick shot...next thing i know maxiel is flying toward the basket and gets underneath it in time to set up for the rebound. that shows something.
     
  6. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    The next time I hear someone talk about JMax being quicker than Darko, I'm going to scream. Of course, he's quicker, he's 7 inches shorter, get that 7 freaking inches shorter. Jmax is shorter than Tay, he's the same height as Rip and Delfino. Yes he's a bruser, but he is not a big, at best, an undersized PF. Remember Corliss? Well Jmax is shorter than him.

    Not that I dont think he'll be good some day, but he doesnt play the same freakin position as Darko, no more than Okur and Corliss played the same position.
     
  7. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    No...he doesn't play the same position as Darko. Nor will he make 1/4 of Darko bucks. But he plays with multiple times the effort Darko has put out.

    Time to fold the Darko hand. Hopefully, Darko will go down in history as JD's biggest boner ever. Thankfully for JD, it will be camouflaged by at least two finals, and one championship.
     
  8. bricalz

    bricalz First Round Draft Pick

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    Yup

    Indeed, because who knows? If we had picked Dwade or Melo or Bosh, we might have missed that championship.

    In that scenario, I'm GLAD Joe picked Darko.

    And I'm overly optimistic that he still will be serviceable. Just can't give a timetable when.

    Anyway, I completely disagree with Woody's assessment of the bench. Dice has only started to hit his shots. He sucked in the first, like, 15 games. Arroyo is great as a backup point for us this season, that spotty defense and overdribbling sometimes still shows but he has been well, better than Chucky Atkins in the offense. Chucky did nothing, though I cheered him on here, but shoot three's.

    Evans is athletic and does not have the handles but he gives hustle and bounce that's why he is getting time. Delfino is a guy I'd like to see more though. JMax is another energy guy out there and Darko well is Darko.

    :ohwell:
     
  9. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Not quite true

    To an extent, who you can guard defines your position. In the summer league, Darko did so so guarding Kamen. Not so great at first, but well at the end. Maxiell on the other hand dominated Kamen very badly on both ends of the floor. Kamen could neither hope to stop Maxiell, nor hope to score against him. Remember this, Ben is just one inch taller than Maxiell. With all that said, Maxiell still is not 7-2. Darko is. There is a huge height difference between the two players.

    Since this is the NBA, height happens to matter. Even though you are wrong about the two players not competing for minutes at the same position, you are still right in a way. When it comes to beating Miami, Darko can help on Shaq. Maxiell, no. Way too short. Since winning championships is the goal, not looking great in garbage time, we still need Darko. And Flip needs to play the heck out of him. I will rephrase that. We Piston fans need for Flip to play the heck out of Darko, cause we surely are hungry for another 'Ship round here.
     
  10. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    Exactly what impact did Darko have on the championship? Do you really think drafting Wade, Melo, Bosh, or anyone else may have prevented that title?

    I'm getting really, REALLY tired of people making ridiculous excuses to attempt to justify Darko's presence within the Piston organization...past, present and future.

    I wish Darko the best. I hope he one day has a double-double...against the Pistons...in a losing cause. In that...I think he would take satisfaction.
     
  11. Abe Froemen

    Abe Froemen First Round Draft Pick

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    i am freakin tired of darko period any future darko posts/threads need to be:lock1: and regular posts need to go back to topic(i forgot there was a smiley for that) when darko gets brought up
     
  12. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    For some reason, I'm not sure I'm getting your point. What I'm hearing you say is that 6-7 PF Jmax should be played against 7-0 C Kaman, but that he can't do it as well as Darko, except that Jmax outplayed Kaman in the summer league in a way that Darko could not. Did I get that right? Oh...and Darko is 7-2, right?


    I'm sorry...you lost me again.

    Darko on Shaq is food for the Sports Center highlight reel...and I don't mean that in a good way. Dice & DD are our Shaq barricade after Ben & Sheed...not Darko, not Jmax.

    ???

    I must be slow...I'm just not getting your gist.

    By/if the time comes that Darko could handle Shaq...Shaq will be retired.
     
  13. max

    max All-Star

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  14. max

    max All-Star

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    DArko's contribution

    He looked bad out there. No concept at all of getting good rebounding position. He is so concerned with blocking shots that he does not see anything else. I do not expect anything from Darko anymore.

    Thing is Darko is taking a spot that someone like Glyndauskas ( greek center) could have had. Glyn would not have exactly been an all-star either but at least he would be giving it 110% everytime out there.
     
  15. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    Darko did tip in a rebound in traffic. The sad thing is how unusual that has become. Even sadder: He's again tossing up shots without seeming to care if they go in.
     
  16. bricalz

    bricalz First Round Draft Pick

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    Nope

    I'm not making excuses for Darko. And I'm as dissatisfied with his performance so far. But, I'm glad Joe drafted Darko, not because he contributed something, but because he didn't do anything to deter that championship drive.

    Nobody can say for certain that had we drafted Bosh, Melo, Wade or anybody else that we would have still won that year, because it didn't happen. Darko happened. We won.

    Sure they are far off from where Darko is right now and are great great players, but the state of the Pistons today have no need for them. I'm saying I'd like someone to just sit on the bench, not do anything to disrupt the team, get whatever work in during practice, not sulk around when put in garbage time (which I'm still hoping he'd do), and that is Darko.

    It's kinda weird, contributing while not contributing really. Twisted way of thinking but hey, it's one way of looking at it. :laugh:
     
  17. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Look at the stats, everyone seems so happy with JMax and so upset with Darko, yet Darko has the better stats in similar types of pt.

    JMax may be running around more, but the result is the same, not counting shots. Which Jmax seems to be taking a little too much, and Darko at the 5, isn't going to get set plays in Flip's offense. (Check out Ben and Davis' shots per game)

    Darko has more boards, more steals, more blocks, and less fouls, I guess he's just not as motivated as Jmax.
     
  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    And more minutes....

    That is the understatement of the Millenium.
     
  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    And you don't have a bias?

    What about the rebound where he sealed his man from the rim, had perfect position and didnt even raise his hands or jump as the ball sailed over his head?

    That is a big part of the problem. Jesus Basketball is a youthful and healthy 7' european legend, making approx. $5 million a year (more than Arroyo, Hunter, Evans, Davis or JMax+Acker+Johnson combined) and he's the worst +/- player on the team. He makes a negative impact on the floor.

    That's always been the problem. We want to like him. He gives us a glimpse or taste every three months. For every great moment, we're rewarded with 30 or 40 ho-hum ones.

    Well, like it or not, everyone has high expectations from a #2 pick that was taken over Anthony, Wade, Bosh, Kaman etc. Expectations for him will always be higher than JMax. He seems so indifferent to whether or not he is this generation's Sam Bowie. If I were him and had some pride, it would bother me a lot.
     
  20. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Good overall game

    almost all the pistons had a part in that win. even though the pistons had 110 points the most anyone got was 19 (from sheed). arroyo was great, and so was maurice. he and arroyo had some great hustle plays. Delfino didn't shoot that great, but he handled the ball well gat some good assists, and rebounds. dice is getting his 50% shooting back, and he's almost always solid off the bench. J-max put up some good points, and a perfectly good block the refs called a foul on. as for darko he had a tip-in, but he has to learn that he needs to get rebounds not only blocks. he never was in position to get boards. great offensive flow 29 assists and 50% shooting from 3, and 50.6 % shooting overall. shut them down defensively to 82 made them turnover the ball (although some were unforced). beat them on the glass 46-39.
     

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