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Playing patterns and other possibilities

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by pass99, Dec 2, 2006.

  1. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    You have a basic 6 man starting rotation averaging approx. 82 pts per game.
    · Hamilton
    · Billups
    · Prince
    · Wallace
    · Mohammed (key flex rotation)
    · McDyess (key flex rotation)
    __________________________________________ 82 pts (186 minutes)

    You have a 4 man bench rotation averaging approx. 50-60 minutes per game and potential representative substitution patterns.
    · Murray (Hamilton, Prince, Billups)
    · Delfino (Hamilton, Prince, Billups)
    · Hunter (Billups)
    · Maxiell (Hamilton, Prince with potential for Mohammed, McDyess)
    _________________________________________20 pts (50-65 minutes)

    The team should be averaging close to 100 pts. per game. Defensive goals are obvious.

    Backup with a mixture of rotation for those above:
    · Dupree (key flex for 4 man bench)
    · Davis (key flex for Mohammed, McDyess, Wallace)
    · Johnson (Hamilton, Prince)
    · Blalock (Billups)

    I would say that the most important backups and who have to get more playing time are Maxiell and Davis. This will avoid burnout, injury susceptibilities and bench development for your front line.

    The 4 player bench can step-up at any time for above average game play; but it seems that in order for fresh troops down the stretch and in the playoffs, one would need to currently develop a team rhythm so that everyone knows what to expect in role development and there are no surprises when called upon.

    I am assuming that no trade happens where JD can pickup insurance for the front 4 line. Seems like if this happens, then you would have to lose at least McDyess, one or more from the 4 man bench, one or more from the 3 backups and perhaps, a draft choice(s). Difficult territory to maneuver not knowing where we are at with CB (?).

    A personal outlook that I would try and which might become effective is to vary your starting lineup. There is no reason not to start any current bench player in order to mix team chemistry and gaining a positive bench outlook. I am assuming that the maturity of the starting five would see the benefit of this direction. It is extremely difficult for a coach to switch patterns that usually have better than average results.

    The Eastern Conference is down and depth as consistency from the bench will keep all teams struggling. Flip is in excellent shape to expand his offensive patterns and having the assistant coaches harping on the defensive end along with getting the bench ready.

    December and January should be excellent months for some of these experiments. In the end, most of the bench players would have started and shared time as starters.

    And please forum members; let’s try to relax your consistent regurgitation of Flip bashing. He’s not going anywhere. Try and take the high road. The Eastern Conference championship is for the Pistons to lose.

    Go Pistons!
     
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Wow, this is a really great post. I will have to spend some time thinking it over.
     
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I can't see any of the Pistons surrenduring starts to the bench, although Nazr being demoted is a possibility given his now notoriously slow starts to games, either for the reluctant McDyess or the wizened Davis.

    I'd guess that Delfino will only start if Murray does not find consistency. Important to note that Murray is a ready starter though, his career #s are much better when he gets to be on the court at tip off.

    I'm surprised that you have Dupree above Johnson as a key flex player. Johnson is our asset to develop, Dupree with any significant playing time will likely opt out of his deal for next season and become a free agent.
     
  4. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    You are confusing the issue. Get rid of that directional “surrendering”. This has nothing to do with surrendering anything. It is merely a substitution event that gets the mentality of the bench players away from thinking of garbage playing (pure isolation) and not getting the chance of acquiring a rhythm which is a natural byproduct created from accepted starting roles. This form of association makes a huge impression not only on teammates, but also to other entities around the NBA. Developing counteractive strategies (that have a much better rate of success) is much harder for other teams to defend when the mix is doubled. The banking industry certainly knows the benefits of this form of compounding your assets.

    Furthermore, this is not an artificial setting created by circumstances that are dictated by obligatory substitution patterns which makes assistant coaches feel like they are helping create a strategy. Yes, even they have to prove to themselves that they can make a difference. Starting makes the whole atmosphere open up for possibilities that make you adapt and forces you to tune everything as a flow and it will have greater benefits as an analysis tool…weakness and strengths are much more visual.

    Everyone sees the bench as a huge asset, but neglects the importance of patterned comfort levels which have to be created…the infrastructure, so-to-speak. This is one of the reasons so many of the younger players bounce around the leagues for years until they accumulate enough forced exposure (and maturity) to offset this benign neglect. Generally, it seems to me, that the quickest way to discover, nurture and accelerate talent is by technical mentoring, and providing the opportunity to develop a rhythm that acts as a positive learning environment. You only get the latter under live game conditions. When you are a starter, (as opposed to the role of a young substitute), positive mental conditioning is reinforced by comparative boundaries
    (the other players) and away from selective attention concentrated on a (self-imposed)you An easy example of this is when a project manager makes himself the center of activity. It has been observed that managers should not be situated at the center of the communication grid. They will become overloaded and make decisions that don’t take day-to-day dynamics into account. A person like Mark Cuban, is of course, the exception.


    Let us start out by stating that the hierarchical choosing over a fellow team-mate is not what we are after. Think about this: what happens if some other combinations work with fellow team-mates playing next to you from the bench (I not talking about wholesale substitutions)? You pattern is substitution by the zero-sum game.

    What needs to happen is a systematic placement or rotation that finds its mixture by first starting within the core group. You have to start the process with an overload of balance and not as a hyper stimulus which creates an unnatural flow for the player.

    You mention Murray, who feels comfortable in starting, and this is natural, because he a history of being placed in this role (due to an injury and not an evident placement from the beginning) and he was moderately successful. His implementation during this phase did not sit well with many fans, because he acted in that zero sum pattern: create as much activity and scoring centered around you, before your substitution star (Ray Allen) becomes active and you are replaced. Does anyone not think this was a pretty tough act to follow? I don’t know about you, but I’ve seen some real flashes of considerable talent coming from him, and this is from a 27 year old, who definitely has game.

    Delfino and Murray should be a nightmare (together or apart?) match-up in a small lineup and this especially includes the Suns. Delfino should have the opportunity to start and the prelude to this is the coaches constantly whispering in his ear that the closer he gets to the basket, the more dangerous he becomes. Delfino needs to find his comfort zone and this, once again, is with an overload of balance consistently reinforced.


    I grouped the players by position, but unfortunately, when you drop down into the teens, it gets thin for playing time and justification for existence (and I don’t mean to be flippant about this). Dupree is another backup to the group above him. Came cheap, has talent, experience and probably doesn’t start any trouble in the locker-room.

    Johnson needs work and any attempt by management in hiding him in order to sneak and meet his FA is well…jejune. There are no secrets and I don’t think this is management’s motivation. If he is so raw that individual coaching by the staff is a necessity, as opposed to getting more time in the D-League, creates a larger question mark in my mind. Start the kid and let’s have a good look. What’s the big deal? Next year is a deeper draft and I might add, not that deep (substitute the big first five with an additional five and talent proportion still slides down the line). Detroit can’t handle the youth zone as it is. The only other option is that he is trade fodder, but the hide and seek fools no one. The last thing Flip/JD needs is another uproar about poor player combinations and bench development from the fan base.
     
  5. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I was going to post the same thing. Well said.

    Taking away the aura of being a "starter" is probably not a bad thing for the team. Putting key reserves in with 4 solid players will take the pressure off of them and let them slowly build confidence. Instead of taking someone's starting spot away for good, you need to establish the fact that it will vary depending on what the team needs.

    As far as the youth movement goes, I sort of like the Kareem Abdul Jabar mentoring situation with Bynum. What a great way to give a kid confidence. Let's get Charles Barkley in there for JMax.
     
  6. hack

    hack First Round Draft Pick

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    "And please forum members; let’s try to relax your consistent regurgitation of Flip bashing. He’s not going anywhere. Try and take the high road."

    I don't know if you meant that as a slander, but the notion that bashing Flip is somehow taking a low road is stupid. I've discussed Flip with you and you haven't come up with anything more than empty platitudes to defend him against specific and measured allegations.

    I wish people in such situations would back their opinions or be open to more reasoned ones, but that is merely my own wish. Failing something more competent, perhaps you should at the very least recognize that everyone is entitled to post their opinions.
     
  7. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Pass you have a good grasp of the Catch22. Starters need their minutes to keep their grove, the bench needs minutes to spell the starters. But they'll never get enough minutes to be effective. If a bench guy becomes "unhidden" other teams will court him, use the pun as you wish.
    Should his money become too much for bench value you must start him.
    Now start over with a change in personel.
     
  8. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Yep, you have summarized what took me over 6 paragraphs into a concrete one that needs to be taken.

    Depth-wise, this is most talented team in the NBA. Psychologically, they are frail and Flip/JD are probably are having sleepless nights. The loss tonight is should not be allowed to happen.

    There is plenty of time. Do it while you have an option with the schedule. They will have to be a lot tougher come March. To add to those sleepless nights, JD knows he will not be able to trade for it.
     
  9. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Ditto...as summarized by TaShawn and you.
     
  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Unfortunately, talent alone is not enough to win a title. Or the Mavs would have in 2004.

    Oh just rub some salt in my wounds!
     

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