Playing Time

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Slippy, Oct 20, 2005.

  1. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    I can't find the post but I think Lee356 mentioned balancing the minutes to give new guys exposure while letting the starters gel together and get comfortable with the system.

    We have a ton of players who I'd really like to see get decent playing time and I also would like to have the starters play less minutes overall to deter injury and fatigue as the playoff grind on. But when does the drop off in PT adversly affect a starters performance?

    I'd like to get peoples' thoughts on this.
  2. Zoso

    Zoso First Round Draft Pick

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    skippy


    Just for future reference. All you have to do is click on a members name. It will take you to thier profile, where you can click on either "find all posts by said member." or "find all threads started by." That will take you to a list of all thier posts/threads. Then you just simply scroll through the list until you find the post you're looking for.
  3. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    I feel like you need to get OUR starting 5 about 30mpg, we sit back as fans and think that since a player only has to play 20-25 mpg that's a good thing. Not true. This beautiful game we love so much is a game of rhythm. WHen you limit a players minutes significantly you risk throwing off their rhythm not allowing them to get into a groove. Out starting 5 is a unit that lets the game come to them and they pick their spots in different times in the game to get their Groove going, especially Tayshuan, Rasheed and Chauncey.

    If you recall Toine's run in Dallas his productivity went down big time because he couldn't get going playing just 20 mpg with Jamison. This is the reason why finding bench players is so difficult. Tell a guy that he only has about 18 mins to get it done is tough, that's why when some stars get relegated to coming off the bench they drop off. Then there's players like Rick Davis that will ruin a starting 5, but tell him to come off the bench with the green light to fire away and he excelled, go figure.
  4. TBird

    TBird First Round Draft Pick

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    Slippy

    I think our starters need to be getting 32 mins per game. Last year Ben and 'Sheed played about that, CB slightly more. Biggest problem was Rip and Tay (both in the 37-38 range).

    I will second the thought that flow is extremely important. Both limited minutes and too many combinations can ruin that. That's why Lee's rotations of 14 players or whatever are ridiculous. I think you can make a good case that we have players 1-13 that can be at least somewhat effective as regular NBA contributors (everyone but Acker and Johnson at this point, neither of whom is quite ready).

    But the idea that you can try to play all of those guys in a rotation is absurd. 10 is about as many as you can use reasonably effectively. That's why I think that in the regular season you will see very little of Maxiell, Dale Davis, and even Hunter, as right now it looks like we'll be going with Arroyo, Evans, Delfino, Dyess, and Darko off the pine. I would guess Arroyo, Evans, and Delfino would play about 16 minutes, Dyess 20, and Darko 12 right now.
  5. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    I completely agree with you.
  6. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    I had to go 6 pages back to find something on minutes. Everybody is gripeing about starters playing too many minutes and not being fresh for the long playoff run.
    ...Well, Tay plays the most at 570 min. total. He's 73rd in the league right in front of VCarter at 569 min.[It would be nice to rest Tay a little more---calling Amir Johnson]
    ...Rip is next at 83rd with 545 min.
    ...BBen is 89th with 527 min.
    ...Memo is 24th at 661 min. and huge numbers[did Lb 4Lb cost us a starter?]
    ...And CBill [THE BEST PLAYER IN THE NBA ] isn't even in the top one hundred. So I guess CarArr is doing a good job of resting him.
  7. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Those are interesting numbers. I just wonder how our starters minutes compare to minutes of just the other teams expected to go to the conference finals and deeper? I would think that's when the minutes really start to catch up with you.
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Howabout an every other game concept to get players into the "flow"?One night, Arroyo/ Dice-Maxiell/ Evans get all of the reserve time, and the next night Hunter-Acker/ Darko/ Delfino get all of the extra minutes. That way, they can get used to playing with the same guys and they can play for extended minutes. Also, they will know before hand and can be mentally prepared.

    I would also be interested to see how it would work if every 5 games or so, you took a starter and had them come off the bench to play limited minutes if needed... as a way to rest them. It would be a good way to break up some of the back-to-back games for Ben or Tay.
  9. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Tim Duncan: 596 minutes.
    Jermain O'neal: 624
    D.wade: 731.

    over roughly 17 games.
  10. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    you know what flip is on 1130 today at 4:35 and someone here should ask him about this, just an idea.
  11. Pastor Flournoy

    Pastor Flournoy First Round Draft Pick

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    the biggest thing that hurt our starters in the playoff's was not getting the number 1 seed. If we win the number 1 seed we will have an easier road to the finals.(however, I think that means we will still draw Pacers in second round)

    What your stats brought out that I have mentioned before is part of having 5 all-star type players is, you never want to keep that kind of guy on the bench 2 long.
  12. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    pacers just might not get the 4th

    they have played very poorly (indy pacers), and if cleveland kepps it going they just might get the 4th seed.
  13. crastinator

    crastinator First Round Draft Pick

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    I just caught the interview on the way home and they did ask him about this. His response was what the Pastor just mentioned. Having 5 all star caliber players means you need to make sure each gets at least in the mid 30s to maintain their rhythm.

    off topic, he also said Carlos Arroyo is funnier than Rasheed.
  14. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    interesting

    that people are starting to acknowledge that it takes a certain type of player to just come in and light it up off the bench with 5 minutes of playing time. some people call it taking advantage of your time out there. i think the players that are best at this are the players that are more on the selfish side. they love to come in and have the green light to fire away. a more get into the flow let the game come to you type of player needs quite a bit more minutes.

    this is a problem with the pistons team. our starters are so good that they play the majority of the minutes. this leads to our bench having no comfort level at all. i think the idea of alternating games is a good one.

    me personally i would bring in the 2nd unit as a whole group. so at least if they didn't have a long time out there they could at least have thier own chemistry to draw on. right now bringing them in 1 by one each person takes a little bit longer to get thier legs under them and the play of the team suffers.

    i also think the doom of the pistons without the bench is overstated. last year we played with a rotation of 7 players. we also played many games that we shouldn't have. this year we are not toying with teams we should beat. we are beating them. so shorter series will mean more rest for our boys. also the first 2 rounds i see us using deep benches and the last 2 rounds we can run the starters into the ground if we want. they have all summer to get thier energy back.
  15. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    No offense, but he not only neglects to "light it up" but he actually "stinks it up".

    I can understand it taking a while to heat up for some players (if Vinnie is the microwave Darko is the slow cooking crock pot), but he just looks dazed out there. Prince always has that non-emotional look but he lets his play speak for him. Unfortunately, Darko's look matches his play.

    I'd love to be wrong Jay, but I've personally given up on him. I hope they trade him...fast.
  16. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Darth...tell us how you REALLY feel. c'mon.
  17. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    i disagree on darko stinking it up. he's had some up and down games but he's really only stunk it up offensively. i wouldn't even say that because he barely takes shots. he sets solid picks and get open just never recieves the rock in scoring position.

    prince and darko have the same non - emotional look but prince is also getting the playing time to let his play speak for him. tay also allows the game to come to him but he's just out there long enough for it to happen. tay just really got aggressive this year and the last part of last year. does darko's look match his play on the defensive end?? darko isn't the only dazed and confused bench player. most of the bench isn't sure of thier role this year.

    i think you may have a personal vendetta against darko. he hasn't stunk it up any more than mcdyess. mcdyess has really struggled this year and he is getting the minutes. darko is getting maybe 5 minutes to make it happen. he's also getting those minutes with arroyo who will pound the ball for quite a while then roll pick and roll with mcdyess.

    i'm glad you would love to be wrong because you are. darko is a young player with no experience. no high school, no college, no nba rookie season on a lottery team, barely any overseas experience. everything he's learned has been in practice so it may take him a minute to apply it to game time situations.
  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Carlos Arroyo is hilarious. I caught his Dale Davis impersonation from the Preseason special and I was cracking up.
  19. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Well, since he has NO experience, what makes you so sure YOU are right and I am wrong? Sounds like a guy with no experience has a very limited history of success. I'm just going by what I do see...not what I hope to see.
  20. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    LOL. I can't. When I do Roscoe deletes it and sends me a PM admonishing me.:censored:

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