Question: GM overriding the coach

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by barbara SanAntone, Sep 24, 2005.

  1. barbara SanAntone

    barbara SanAntone First Round Draft Pick

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    Dont know where to ask this question but it has been bothering me. I will preface it by saying I think Pistons could have/should have won game 7, but I feel that LB let them down, didn't keep them focused, pulled players too early, didn't make the adjustments to Pop's changes (which he knew very well), in other words, he abandoned them. My question: When Joe Dumar (a guy who really seems sharp, even genius) could see what was happening, why didn't he go over and tell LB to wake up, get with it, stop daydreaming? Is he allowed to do that? Is there a written (or unwritten) rule that a GM can't do that, that no one interferes with the coach? Even when the ship is sinking, or it's obvious that the coach (deliberately or not) is not doing his job?

    Hey, I don't even know anything about basketball, but it was even obvious to me that Brown had stopped coaching. I think Pop knew it too. I think it even confused the Spurs, they didn't know what LB was up to.:doh:
     
  2. Jackattaq

    Jackattaq First Round Draft Pick

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    I think

    that Joe Dumars is one of the more respected GM's because he WILL NOT interfere with his coaches. He won't cross "that line" and become a meddling GM. He is willing to let the thing play out and take care of matters in the off-season. I'm pretty sure that Joe and LB didn't see eye to eye on alot of matters but Joe wasn't going to "rock the boat" and have it become a distraction. He prefers to let it ride and then take care of problems behind closed doors. It just seems to be Joe's policy.
     
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I agree with that. Joe is a patient guy who makes moves not out of panic but with purpose. If he had stepped in during the playoffs, it may have killed any chance we had to win.

    It's not like he could have added Flip after Game 2 of the Finals and expect things to play out ok.

    I'm hoping Joe knows something about Flip that I don't. Part of me wonders if Flip is just another 2 year coach until someone better comes along. Joe works in mysterious ways.
     
  4. Jackattaq

    Jackattaq First Round Draft Pick

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    I think that one of the things Joe is banking on is that Flip will bring stability to the Pistons. With LB things were always chaotic. No one ever seemed to know if LB was staying or going or where his head was.

    I think Joe is looking at Flip as perhaps a slight downgrade in coaching but an upgrade in attitude and committment. Flip was in Minny for 9(?) years. Thats a long tenure in the NBA. Flip made the playoffs for 7 consecutive years and that's quite impressive considering he didn't have any 1st round picks for 5 years. Flip has also shown a committment to playing deep into the bench and to mix it up with some zone defenses. He is considered an innovator in teaching various styles of the zone defense. Joe probably wanted a guy that would go deep into the bench to develop talent and a guy that is going to be around for a long time.
     
  5. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Agree with you guys.
    The fact that Joe knew he had his 4M investment not getting an burn shows that he is willing to ride with the coaches decisions... this is the kind of respect that filters to other coaches looking for a job... Joe will let the coach do his thing without medling.

    But this brings up another question... how much is Mr. D putting pressure on Joe and his coach?... Did the no Darko PT play into LB's demise?
    Mr. D has directly been responsible for the last two firings... ultimately he's cutting the checks and demands excellence... maybe Joe is just the middle man on some other decisions being made... we know Mr. D (who appears to be a nice man) has a short fuse.
    What's the over/under on Flip lasting more than two years?
     
  6. Jackattaq

    Jackattaq First Round Draft Pick

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    I think that Mr. D saying that LB "wasn't a good person" kinda shows us what he thought of LB and his endorsement of Flip shows that he brought Flip here partially because of his "good guy" reputation. I think Mr. D's opinion of "too much LB and not enought Detroit Pistons" is dead on. He wanted a coach who would coach and stay out of the limelight.

    Whether Mr. D is right or wrong we know that is what he wanted. Joe brought in the kind of coach that Mr. D wanted and he is also a coach with a pretty successful background. I think Mr. D will be a bit more lenient with Flip then LB because LB was all about LB and it seems that Flip will be more of a "company man".

    I give Flip MORE THAN 2 YEARS.
     
  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Carlisle was improving year-to-year and he was also a "bad person".

    If it was up to JD, I think Carlisle would still be here. He seemed ready to offer him a new contract until Wild Bill got involved.

    What's the history? 5 straight coaches none lasting longer than 2 years?

    Great organizations like San Antonio have continuity. The GM and Coach form a partnership, and ownership sticks to finance, not personnel decisions. Joe may be the best GM in the East, but RC Buford gives him a run for best GM in the league.
     
  8. max

    max All-Star

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    Coaching

    The key point we can all agree on is the late 3rd quarter decision to sit both Dyess and Sheed due to foul trouble and put the banged up Prince on Duncan.

    2 issues here.

    1) LB was coaching out of the box in benching Dyess and SHeed. That move is usually the correct choice for a typical game but LB should have taken the risk with the foul trouble.

    2) Given that he did make that choice then why did he go with Prince instead of Elden Campbell? We have seen small ball moves like this before. As in game 5 of the 2004 NJ series where LB went with Darvin Ham over Okur fearing Okur would not be fast enough.

    Moves like these. Following a general script and not taking risks and adjusting to the opposing coach rather than dictating who he should play is why I question LB's authority as a geneous playoff coach.
     
  9. barbara SanAntone

    barbara SanAntone First Round Draft Pick

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    Thanks folks, my question answered...

    I agree that Joe D.'s style, not to interfere with the coaching, is what makes him a great GM and respected by other coaches. He knew LB's pattern, his instability, and maybe he was just hoping that LB would hang on through the Finals.

    Reading the posters in this forum at least has given me a new perspective. Someone mentioned the game was about players, not coaches and their drama:drama: . Another pointed out that Joe D., knowing LB's history, brought him in to develop a potential already there and maintain a strong core, so that when he did leave, the team could function without him, under the guidance of another coach (something like that). That makes sense to me.

    When Joe D. brought the new guy in, he is "not an LB" which is exactly what he wanted, it seems. Why hire a guy that works like the one you just got rid of? Get someone that brings something different, innovative, 2006ish AND someone who wants to be here. :usa2:

    Thanks guys, I feel better now, not bitter. I will turn loose of LB, wish him the best, and know that he will bow down when he sees his former team :hail: in the Finals. PISTONS/SPURS 2006!
     
  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    The best situation is for Flip and JD to form the same type of partnership that Pop and RC Buford have. Something that can last 6~8 years and make use of the new NBA D-League farm system.
     

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