Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by blueadams, Apr 15, 2013.
That's the same thing that Pistons' management told Amir Johnson.
very few Piston games elapsed without me thinking about Frank - "he has never played a single game - not even in college".
I do hold it against him a bit but I also think it shows in his coaching.
I would love to have Lamb in here.
Both times, they meant Canada.
Need a clean sweep...........JD..........Larry.........Stuckey..........and any two that the PF picks.......bye bye......
I wanna see pistons' luggage at the airport on their way out..........
The fact that Lawrence Frank isn't succeeding might actually strengthen Joe Dumars' position in the eyes of Tom Gores.
Frank was Gores' guy and finds himself on the hot-seat after not connecting with his players and having a horrible season.
Joe wanted Mike Woodson. Coach Wood is a COY candidate who's done an amazing job putting his players in the best possible position to succeed. His team is #2 in the East after suffering an injury-riddled season on a roster that already had a lot of mis-matched pieces.
I'm not saying that Woodson would have got the Pistons in the playoffs but I believe that almost everyone on the team would have become better and experienced more professional growth than they did with Frank.
Assessment on Joe isn't about what he did to get us into this mess but what he plans to do to get us out. It was painfully clear that the pieces didn't fit and Frank wasn't the guy to make them fit.
IF Dumars shows a reluctance to cut bait on Stuckey or if his FA targets are not the right type of guys, then he should be dismissed. If anything, signing retreads or retaining turds under the auspices of "retaining assets" has been a major flaw in his GM decision-making.
I don't blame him too much for BG and CV. Everyone makes a misstep. What separates the top franchises is mainly luck. You need a star to land in your lap. Look at Indiana, Milwaukee, Golden State - yeah they added some solid guys, sure they drafted a very good player and yeah, 2nd round at best. It takes these unlucky but well managed teams years to turn things around and still how far do they get? Joe did something that was unique and even more so in modern NBA - his team was build on 5 fringe all-stars. That team was beated by team sporting 1 legendary player.
Annointing Monroe as our franchise player only goes to show that we don't have true talent on the team. There are too many middling players.
We have to look at the past to predict how effective JD will be in the future. I haven't lost all trust in him, but I'm very skeptical. His abandonment of core principals in the past is the main reason.
Good $ values, character guys, and defense seemed to be his philosophy at the beginning.
That somehow migrated into AI, Ben Gordon, Ronald Murray, Nazr Muhammed, Chris Webber, and Charlie V while dropping two of our cheapest players and best defenders with great character (Afflalo/ Johnson). He also developed a combo guard obsession and overloaded the team with guards with egos, thereby sowing the seeds for discontentment.
He had effectively blamed coaches for all of the failures since the Championship.
All in all, he has spent many more seasons pursuing offensive solutions than he did at the beginning striving for a defensive powerhouse. Hiring Flip Saunders was the first sign of it.
But the good news is that JD achieved his greatest accomplishment with his original principals. Maybe with his back against the wall, he will cling to them.
Jud? What an honor!
I disagree. DET has never won anything with a "star." Of the 3 championships we have, none of them of come from us having "the guy" and the one time we thought we had "the guy" (Grant Hill), he promptly bolted town and we got the guy that was actually the catalyst in us winning our 3rd championship. WE all view Isiah Thomas as one of the single best point guards in NBA history, however, the rest of the world just views him as the guy that interfered with Magic, Bird, and Jordan. Nevermind the fact that the team you just mentioned was not beaten by 1 legendary player, it was beaten by being dismantled from the inside, letting it's heart and soul walk out the door while trying to replace it with "Hands of Stone" Nazr Garvin, & hiring a coach that everyone new was inept before he coached his 1st game and this was AFTER that DET team completely undressed a team with 4 HOF's that the entire planet (with the exception of Doc Rivers) assumed would sweep us. If you're waiting for DET to get it's Lebron James, we'll be sitting here for another 20 years.
As far as Monroe...I'm seriously confused on what some fans want from Greg Monroe. Not only has he been durable over the course of his 3 years in DET, but, he's SECOND in pts and rebounding for all centers in the Eastern Conference and FOURTH in the entire NBA. ...and this isn't specifically directed at you Slippy, but wow...I guess there is no pleasing fans. What more do you (fans, in general) want the guy to do? I can't believe how much talk I've heard this season about Monroe having "hit a plateau" or "needs to be moved" so DET can really get serious about improving. REALLY? We have one of the single best big men in the entire NBA on our roster and people are 'annoyed' with him and that's without considering Drummond looks to be just as strong as he improves. I have no idea what it will take to make some people happy. If we can't be satisfied with LITERALLY a top 5 center/PF in the NBA, NO ONE will be good enough for us.
Right. It was something in my mind but couldn't articulate it for myself. Can't put much blame on coaches for handling rosters as...dumars organized...
For Gores it is the most important thing. He does not give a damn for events two years ago; he asks only one question: here we are at the bottom of NBA, how long, Joe ?
It is something irritating for me in this forum - again - this whining - everything below to TOP 5 -10 players - bench him, trade him, wont be "our " superstar" wow. Knight is not Deron Williams - bench him, etc.
Phil Jackson 'itching' to return to NBA as either coach or executive, sources say - ESPN Los Angeles
We are talking about two different things. I am talking about how difficult it is to build a great team. Most teams that have success have lucked into a phenomenal player. Is that pure GM savy that Portland took Oden and OKC then picked Durant? We didn't get a superstar but went on a 6 year tear. That is a great accomplishment. Dumars did that. He did something very few GMs have done. If it was easy, others would have done it more often. Since its difficult, I can see how Dumars struggled recently.
As for Monroe, I like Monroe. I like him as the cornerstone of the franchise. I see him at least as good or even better than Cleveland's Irving, Washington's Wall, Sacramento's Cousins...but look where they are. Tell me you would hold on to Monroe if someone offered Durant or James. That's a whole different class of player. BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT. We can talk about Monroe someplace else. With relatively poor draft position, Dumars has amassed very good talent. But to succeed in a league full of very good talent. It takes a bit more than that.
I'd offer Phil Jackson the Pistons' GM job and tell him that he can do it from LA. Also give him a $100MM bonus if he can accomplish a 3-peat for us.
I think its safe to say that Monroe and Drummond are the frontcourt and we can build from there.
That, I can agree with. I don't think he took the easy road. But, I do think that he believed he could do it easier than anyone else and whenever he wanted.
Granted, but Durant or James are 2 of the handful of A level stars in this league. It would take an act of god for ANY team to land those guys if they didn't draft them. It's not like we're at the bottom of the talent scale and the rest of the league is at the top. Once you get past your Kobe, Lebron, Durants, Monroe is on par with the rest of the talent in the NBA. We are fine. The goal should be if you can't get a Kobe (which hardly anyone can), then you have to build a team FULL OF (not just one or two) Greg Monroes (guys who rank near the top in certain categories). Just like Dumars built that team with Ben Wallaces, Billups', Hamiltons, and the like. If you can't get Lebron, you need to have a team full of B level talent to be competitive. It's not like the NBA is just a Kobe/Lebron/Durant pick 'em game every Finals (Hell, LA barely got into the playoffs this year). They market the league like it is, but it's really not.
I'd actually believe in the Zen Master if he successfully lobbied to get the NBA officiating to favor DET. THAT would make me take off my skep-tacles
Phil Jackson. Sure, I guess. If he's going to commit to the job 100%. If he can attract lucrative free agents and coaches. I always thought he was a lucky hack as a coach though.
Jordan lucked out by getting him as a coach. Without that, he'd just be another Tracy McGrady!
I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment. I think Monroe is the 'model citizen' of Detroit Basketball. Hardworking, not flashy, down to earth. He is a great kid, and a really good ball player.
Player A (p/36): 17.8pts/8.6rb/4.3ast/ 50.1TS%/17.7PER / .075 WS/48
Player B (P/36): 17.4pts/10.4rbs/3.8ast/ 52.8TS%/ 19.5PER / .106WS/48
One of those players is Josh Smith. The other is Greg Monroe. Ill let you guys guess which is which.
Beat us in the 91 ECF with the Bulls and lost in the 04 Finals with the Lakers. Zen has to have an inner respect for Detroit.
Gores has said he is willing to spend. How much is anyone's guess. He could throw a ton of cash at Jackson and that would be good with me.
Or, he could throw a lot less cash at Laimbeer and that would also be good with me.
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