RealGM Trades

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by webz, Jun 15, 2006.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    That's a screenshot I took of the trade. ;)

    Pierce will give us a legit go to scorer, he's usually pretty good in the clutch and wants to win, he's already made his money.

    This has the benefit of bumping Johnson/Maxiell up in the rotation as well as allowing a nice 3 man rotation at SG/SF with Pierce/Prince/Delfino.

    I'm not too high on Dice anymore. His recovery seems to have plateaued and it doesn't look like his above the rim game is going to come back to what it was 5 years ago. He's basically a really good rebounding jump shooter with hustle and physicality on defense.

    Rip is probably my second favorite Piston but he's always going to be a scrawny player who has trouble creating his own shot. Pierce on the other hand has a post game, can score from anywhere and finishes at the rim with authority.

    It's kinda a lateral move, but one which mixes up our attributes, hopefully in a productive manner.
  2. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    I don't think any of these trades will happen though. It's fun to imagine though:). I think Joe will make a move that no one even thought of. If he pulls off another Rasheed type trade how great would that be?
  3. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Oh come on, can't I just pretend to trade Dale Davis some more? That doesn't leave me with a hollow feeling in my stomach.

    Pierce -
    - Better scorer, not quite as good a pure shooter - more points slightly lower shooting percentage, but other than this year, a better shooter from 3
    - 812 FTA this year versus 303 for Rip
    - Goes to the glass - twice as many boards per game as Rip
    - One year older
    - 37 career playoff games versus 83 for Rip
    - Has a mean streak

    Rip -
    - Experienced
    - Lean whipcord body seems able to take punishment without getting hurt (not that Pierce seems injury prone in any way, but just that Rip seems like a player who can play for a long time)
    - Has shown a willingness to work on his game (shooting from 3 this year)
    - Very familar, perhaps too familar with the other players
    - Probably a better defensive player one on one

    The kicker comes down to Dice. Does Pierce make the starting five stronger? Yeah, he probably does. I've always liked him - i.e., hated what he always seemed to do to my team.

    But, the question is how much stronger do you need the starting five to be? You asked elsewhere did the starters play too much or the bench too little. This trade would cement 36-38 MPG for the starting five since I believe replacing what Dice brings would be difficult if not impossible. So, it doesn't provide a way to produce a spark off the bench and reinforce against starter injuries.

    Lingering question though is whether a group can become too familar with each other. Is breaking up a group a good thing from time to time? Is that familarity part of what breeds complacency? If that is true, and it might be, this trade would provide a needed change and make the starting unit stronger. If you can find / develop a bench behind it, which is harder after the trade than before, you could be onto something.
  4. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    The problem with the bench is a lack of players who can get their own shot, combines with the number of starters who cannot get their own shot.

    In fact, this playoffs (and the last Finals) pretty much exposed the Pistons as a team with only one and a half players who can get their own, and only one when on, that can get his teammates going. Billups and half points to Prince.

    In what little I have seen of Maxiell, he looks to be the kind of player who should be able to get his own shot off an ISO, something McDyess all too often passes up. Amir Johnson is another young buck with the ability to dribble and shoot. Much more so than Mo Evans.

    I'm also looking ahead to the future. Pierce is a free agent in 2007/8 if he doesnt take his player option. But we would have his Bird Rights which allows us to re-sign him or look at a S&T. Dice has a player option coming up at the same time, and he's going to be 33/34 looking at diminishing returns for a salary that demands he get significant PT as the 6th man. I don't see a McDyess S&T, nor do I see us renewing his deal when it is over.

    Shame to lose Rip, but subbing in players for Billups and Prince will leave Pierce on the floor, someone who can get the bench through tough times.

    That's my thinking.
  5. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Rasheed can get his own. He is too unselfish sometimes...make it always.
  6. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    That's an interesting deal... it makes sense in that Tay could do a lot of damage at SG...
    The only downside I see is Pierce could only be a two year loan.

    I could actually see Ainge doing this deal so he could afford his young players when their contract expires.... and Rip would not be too old when the youngsters are ready... at least this way they still have a solid player in two years when Pierce could walk.

    Pierce would substantially upgrade the post presence.

    The Pistons could have a huge contract to package in a year (bring in quality youth)

    Ok by me.
  7. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Not sure what to say about that Rip + McDyess for Pierce deal. At first glance, I like it. I think most people would hate to see Rip go, but I feel like a bit of a shakeup is needed with this team. Pierce will be 29 in October so the guy has some good years left, I think. This would definitely be a roll of the dice. Love to get Boston's No. 7 pick as well. Maybe they could thow in Mo and get that pick, too. :laugh:
  8. max

    max All-Star

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    I am not too hot on Dyess either. This 3-PF rotaton has been leaving us with rebounding problems, paint point issues and trouble matching up with tall centers. Even the Verajio's of the league are able to do damage. This 3-pf thing is always played by the coach and there is no room for anyone else to get PT.

    I am also not too hot on trading Rip. He is a fine SG and still has a few more years left on his contract for reasonable rates.

    I wish there was someway we could pull a deal for Kman. Not sure what they would take Dyess + Whatever, it all depends on how his contract talks go this summer and he may even be too expensive.

    There has to be some tall center out there for us. Dumars used to be good at finding them. Even a Zelly type still playing oversees would be nice. Dumars found Zelly and then Okur in subsequent years and thats been about it.
  9. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Kaman would be a good fit (Ben eventually backing the 4/5)... I'm thinking it may be possible to force a S&T when his contract is up... he says he really doesn't like the phonies in L.A.
  10. 1989

    1989 First Round Draft Pick

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    Re: the Boston trade, I'd miss both guys if we did this deal, but I would definitely pull the trigger if the Celts were interested.

    Pierce is strong, nasty, takes it to the rim, and has basically unlimited range. He's also a very good rebounder. He would definitely give us an "edge" at the wing spots that we just don't have right now.
  11. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Don't you think this deal would force even more minutes for the starters? Unless we had Paul come off the bench.
  12. 1989

    1989 First Round Draft Pick

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    A guy like Paul Pierce is not coming off the bench.

    As for more starters' minutes, I don't see why that should be the case. We've got young talent (e.g. Maxiell, Delfino); let's develop it!

    In retrospect, I think it's flat-out ridiculous how Flip apparently expected to ride his "6 starters" to a title. You always need a bench. Without that extra energy and flexibility, teams will have an easy time figuring you out in the playoffs.
  13. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    You just proved my point 89. If we get Paul Pierce there won't even be 6 guys it will be 5 guys. We have talent on the bench but what makes you think we'll use it? We haven't the last 2 seasons and it cost us 2 champonships.
  14. 1989

    1989 First Round Draft Pick

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    Oh, I'm not saying we will; I'm saying it would be dumb not to.

    Whether this or any other deal happens or not, if we don't play our bench, we aren't getting out of the conference, to say nothing of winning it all.
  15. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Unlike LB Flip might change his ways. Do you think Flip wants to fail like this again? We have to hope he knows the reasons the team lost so he can help bandage them up along with the rest of the team. This team has a lot of pride and it would be dissapointing to see this team start losing this way. That 37-5 start was one of the best starts ever and it was all through motivation. This team could be one of the best ever when it has that motivation. I hope this team doesn't have too great of a regular season and the bench plays. I hope evryone rights the team off because thats when they're at their best.
  16. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Flip had many years to change his ways in Minnesota. It seems like he already would have learned his lesson if that was going to happen. If the team starts out lousy, he may get the boot, so will he use his bench in the beginning? If they start out well it's probably 2005/2006 all over again. :ohwell:
  17. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Isn't Pierce thinking about getting wrist surgery, anyhow? Not sure what kind of attitude he has. He's a great player though.
  18. 1989

    1989 First Round Draft Pick

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    His attitude is questionable, but he definitely strikes me as a better citizen than someone like Bonzi Wells, whose name has also surfaced in our discussions in recent weeks.
  19. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    This isn't Kevin McHale talking to him after the season this is Joe Dumars. so we still have hope man. You tend to be right all the time though:mmph::ohwell:.
  20. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    LOL. Thanks, but you missed by about...50%. :laugh:

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