Refs Betting on Games?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by dba, Jul 20, 2007.

  1. detteam

    detteam All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,581
    Likes Received:
    505
    Location:
    Troy
    Someone's finally talking about this again...I hope ALL the truth eventually comes out.


    Former NBA referee plans to plead guilty - NBA - MSNBC.com
     
  2. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,909
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Howard Stubb's garage
    One important line in that article:

    I think that's what most of us expected but there were some who thought this was the tip of the iceberg.
     
  3. detteam

    detteam All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,581
    Likes Received:
    505
    Location:
    Troy
    I'm not sure if anyone actually stated that. I think it has become a generalization based on Stern's initial damage control more than actual facts. If Donaghy is willing to plead guilty, there must be a plea bargain in the works...for which he will pay for by naming names. And if I was him, I'd give up the NBA guys long before I called out any mob connections.
     
  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,654
    Likes Received:
    2,993
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    ESPN - TrueHoop

     
  5. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,361
    Likes Received:
    1
    Donaghy has had an untreated disease for too long. Hopefully he can get some professional help and fight it successfully and then help others with this similar disease to fight it successfully.

    :hoops:
     
  6. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,475
    Likes Received:
    601
    Location:
    Flint
    What we have heard today leaves open the possibility that the league decides games before they start. What else could the NBA have been trying to hide? (Read, what other "inside" information could the ref have been leaking?) I hope this is addressed by Stern soon, and thouroughly. Of course, if there is any truth that the NBA has become the WWF, then Stern should just step down, along with any refs, players, whoever, involved.
     
  7. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    2,715
    Likes Received:
    374
    Location:
    Michigan/Glasgow
    the part that bothers me more then him betting on games he did ref, that is that he could tell his buddies who to bet on by who was working the games.

    We have said it for ages when a certain ref has a piston game were going to have a harder time winning versus another ref. The league would have you believe we were wrong well...... seems there own ref agreed with us all along.

    So along those lines how can they not say there were somwhat fixing there own series depending on who they assigned to a series. Don't want detroit to advance ok who do we have that is a piston hater...... want to make sure La beats sacramento.... and so on and so on.

    the can of worms is open now
     
  8. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,632
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Laurel, Maryland
    What intrigues me more than anything else about this scandal is; the upcoming seasons officiating.

    Everyone knows each and every call will be scrutinized. All refs will or should be held accountable for bad calls. The media will replay and play again each bad call. That is an enormous amount of pressure on the refs.

    Let`s face it, there will be mistakes made, the question is, will Stern create a system that holds refs accountable similar to that of the players.


    My take is, the refs will be much more tolerant of outbursts by Sheed and others. Unless they mention the betting scandal........:sssh:
     
  9. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,654
    Likes Received:
    2,993
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Just playing devil's advocate here.

    The betting could have only been on the over/under, and not on the winner of the game. Danaghy might have tipped off the gamblers who would use certain ref's tendancies to their advantage... similar to knowing whether a MLB ump has a loose or tight strike zone.

    It doesn't necessarily mean that the games are rigged. This is why the NBA hides the information on the refs' assignments until the last minute. They would admit that this information can be abused if it is out there in advance.

    The rigging theory is different. It gets at the incentive for the NBA to have higher ratings by making sure that certain teams win. I don't think we are going to get any evidence of that through the Donaghy affair.
     
  10. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,909
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Howard Stubb's garage
    Will this ref debacle might become fodder for conspiracy theorists?

    Source:The Washington Times (August 3, 2007): pC01
     
  11. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,361
    Likes Received:
    1
    I agree. There is an awful lot of money on the table and if it is the case that rigging is involved there are an awful lot of people involved.

    This does not have Watergate implications.

    It is possible that Donaghy is and will be used to cover up a wider ranging situation such as rigging of key games.

    I think that because there would be too much money and too many people involved that we will never know the truth.

    :hoops:
     
  12. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,909
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Howard Stubb's garage
    I'm hoping the whole thing blows over and it doesn't become an issue throughout the season...heck, we have an openly gay referee an nobody talks about that.
     
  13. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,603
    Likes Received:
    2,473
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Total misuse of the phrase, "immutable facts".

    The Spurs might have had 6 or 7 championships in the last 9 years in them.

    Let's face it. Fixing games, fixing series it's not an exact science. If the ball is going in the hoop for one team and not so much for the other, it would take tremendous abuse by the officials to swing a series back the other way.

    Frankly, I don't think the playoffs are the smoking gun anyways. There is too much scrutiny. The regular season, with 4 games in 5 nights, and lonely road trips for the Atlanta Hawks to the Pac-NW, games that don't come on to TV until 10:30PM EST are the ones you can tweak and mess with. Hawks cover the spread in Portland as a road dog, could be worth millions to the right bettors.
     
  14. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,603
    Likes Received:
    2,473
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    A few more thoughts.

    I've been dying to see if other refs would be implicated. I cannot fathom that this maverick ref would suddenly become this super whistle blower in late game scenarios, and his peers, who practice the same art, many of whom are long time veterans, wouldn't recognize such a thing.

    Perhaps the brotherhood of officials deserves some blame, with refs covering for one another, because it seems (from articles I have read recently) that many of them do not respect the league office.

    Not being a bettor myself, I still understand that road vs. home has a major influence on the spread, and likely the over/under. In the playoffs, a road dog stealing a game (Pistons ECF Game 7 2005) again could be worth millions. A crooked ref doesn't have to let the Pistons win, he only has to position them close to beating the spread, but the side effect of this is that it puts the road dog in position to steal a game.

    This particularly bothers me given how good the Pistons have been on the road in the playoffs and last regular season. It's almost disturbing to think that one or more of those wins, say Billups closing out a game with FTs, may have been a gift from someone with off-the-court financial motives.

    Another thing I have been considering, is that to beat any public system, even one that has safeguards in place against abuse and frequent watch-dogging, requires being subtle and finding the least obvious and easiest ways to disguise the exploitation. From what I understand, Donaghy was flushed out off the court, by being implicated by someone who turned over for the state, or a stool pigeon.

    Consider for awhile that the "game" he was running, could have carried on indefinitely if it was never disclosed. The NBA did not have the measures in place ON THE COURT to identify inconsistencies in the officiating.

    The latest seems to be that Donaghy is copping a plea to supplying information. There doesn't appear to be a smoking gun, via the implication of other refs or even an admission of game fixing. But again, 15 straight times, in games TD officiated, the big money won, when it should only win 50% of the time. It's mathematically 30,000+ to 1 that such an occurrence would happen. And even if it was happening naturally, shouldn't the NBA and it's Vegas monitors been aware that such an unlikely series of events were occurring and launched internal investigations on their own?

    Tim Donaghy Details from the Justice Department

    Missing From the Documents: Allegations of Fixing Games

    Betting Expert: More to This Story

    The last link is very fascinating.
     
  15. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,909
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Howard Stubb's garage
    The last link was interesting. So if the other officials noticed that his officiating style changed drastically, that he was calling more fouls...and they had suspicions that he was manipulating the scores...they still wouldn't have proof. Just suspicion.
     
  16. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,361
    Likes Received:
    1
    To tell the truth this whole thing with Donaghy doesn't bother me very much, because

    1. I am surprised that nothing has come out before this about him or other officials, knowing the prevalence of the gambling disease in our society.

    2. I would be bothered a lot more if players were found guilty of shaving points and betting, like Rose in baseball. Now if superstar X were found guilty of gambling on games then you really have to start thinking in terms of WWF. But without the player's be involved then you know that they are giving their all to win and that to me is the most important thing.

    I have complained about officiating for years so if the nba officials cleaned up their act I would feel something was missing during the season and it just wouldn't be the same watching the games. LOL :lol:

    So bottom line I just hope that the press doesn't over kill this subject during the exhibition season and into the regular season.

    I would hate to have to spend this next season seeing 75% or more of the print and media coverage talking about

    1. The Celtics
    2. Durant
    3. Suns
    4. Officials

    I think the first three are a given but hopefully the fourth one disappears into the night like the setting sun.

    :hoops:
     
  17. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,632
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Laurel, Maryland
    I am willing to bet you that Durant will not be the rookie most coveted by the media next season. I don`t know who will, I just have a hunch it will not be Durant.

    I believe he will have a very good season, to your dismay, however, there are several rookies that could grab the headlines from Mr. Durant.
     
  18. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,361
    Likes Received:
    1
    Au contra' my friend.

    I would love nothing better than for Durant to have a good season. He can shoot and score.

    I just don't like all the hype over a one dimensional player.

    I also don't like the fact that AJ is being ignored by the media and Durant is being overhyped relative to what each will contribute.

    All fans love to see their favorites get written up and widely covered by the media. Don't you.

    In fact I would love to see him also get rebounds.

    I have nothing against him.

    I like to see all players succeed except my Pistons.

    Have a nice day
     
  19. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,361
    Likes Received:
    1
    These darn typo's will sometime make me look like a fool

    It should have read

    I like to see all players succeed except AGAINST my Pistons

    :hoops:
     
  20. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,603
    Likes Received:
    2,473
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Buddha, you can click the edit button on your previous post, and make changes for up to 20 minutes after you first posted. You don't have to quote it and add on if you are just making edits or additions.
     

Share This Page