Response to Lee's AJ conversation

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by jammertime, Oct 8, 2005.

  1. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    In response to Lee's post on a different thread:

    Lee wrote: "Joe Dumars signed Amir Johnson to a two year contract. That means we get him this season and next, and then I believe we can match any offers up to the MLE to keep him. You are basically saying we made a mistake in signing Amir Johnson."

    Uh...no actually, I didn't say that at all, but thanks for listening.

    Lee wrote: "Because we surely could have told a 2nd round pick to go to Europe, the CBA, or try to hook up with an NBDL team if we chose to. We did not. We signed the guy and must play him while we have him under contract."

    Sure, that's one option, but so is sending him to the NBDL, and in my opinion its a better option. In the DL, the Pistons can keep a closer eye on him than if he was in Europe, without taking up a roster spot on the big club (and could call him up much quicker in an emergency).

    Not to mention the fact that playing in Europe would be a much bigger culture shock and would probably require a much longer adjustment period for an 18 year old than playing for Fayetteville would (just ask Darko). Joe D. might have felt it was worth the extra money to have the added control and the better opportunity for evaluation (I'm just speculating on that though).

    Lee wrote: "Here is an argument back at you. You think King James should have been sent to an NBDL team his first year?"

    See, this is the point where I went from thinking you were crazy, to knowing it. :der: That's not even comparing apples to oranges. That's like comparing apples to a beach ball.

    James was the #1 pick for a very weak Cavs team. He was clearly an upgrade over anyone else on that roster. AJ was the 56th pick on a team that went to back to back Finals.

    My questions to you are: Who hadn't heard of LBJ before last year's draft? What do you think the Cavs fans would have done had they sent Lebron to the DL for a season? Especially knowing that he was already better than everyone on their current roster combined! Who had heard of AJ before the draft? Do you really think any Pistons fans would revolt if AJ goes to the DL?

    Lee said: "Amir Johnson is scary athletic. He belongs in the NBA right now. Sure, we have a lot of players ahead of him on this team, but look out. None of them are near the athlete he is, and he has some serious skill too. Sure he can fill out some at this point, but he has already exceeded 6-10 and 220 pounds and is growing."

    I never said I didn't like AJ, but why rush him when he's only 18 and we have Darko, Acker, Maxiel & Delfino who are older and more NBA ready right now? You said it yourself, there are a lot of players ahead of him on this team. Just relax and enjoy the other 4 (basically) rookies.

    Lee wrote: "Don't blink or you are going to miss this guy going from rookie to star."

    There you go talking all crazy again... :frusty:

    *blink*
  2. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    LOL. Sometimes, just when I start to wonder why I bother spending time in a certain place, something comes along to make me laugh...and I remember why. :yo:
  3. bricalz

    bricalz First Round Draft Pick

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    :)

    Haha, LMAO, ROFL and whatever laughing acronyms you can think of. :laugh:
    C'mon guys, you're gonna drive Lee off. :)
  4. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    hi

    jammertime, I will try again since you did not get my point the first time. We could have not signed Amir Johnson. We could then keep his draft rights, unused for a year or two. After he developed, then we could sign him. Now we would be getting a more mature player.

    But instead, we signed him already. And in a couple of years he will be a partially restricted free agent. We don't have that much time to get any use out of him at this point. Sitting him for a couple of seasons or playing him in the NBDL would be pointless as he would then be up for a contract, having contributed nothing to the team.

    You can play in the NBDL without a contract with an NBA team. Same with going to the CBA, or Europe. Look, we just sent Paulding to Israel for a season. He did not pan out for us. But its an option.

    It is an option Joe Dumars did not take. Dumars signed the kid for good money, right now. We got this season and next to see what we got. The more he plays for the club, the more experience he gets, the more valuable to us he will become. Go look at the rotations thread where I posted scenario where Amir Johnson gets 600 NBA minutes this season. Its quite plausable.
  5. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    I think he's already "off" :der:

    Seriously, I like Lee. I don't want him to leave.

    But he does set himself up for this stuff when he talks that nonsense. :boink: Besides, he dishes it out too...ok, maybe not quite so well...but he tries. :laugh:
  6. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I got your point the first time and that was a possibility as well. But you can't tell me that there won't be any players in the DL that have been signed to NBA contracts. Just because AJ is signed, it doesn't exclude him from playing there.

    Maybe Joe D. does plan on keeping him on the big roster, I have no idea. I wasn't trying to predict what Joe would do with AJ, I was just saying that in my opinion AJ and the Pistons would be better off with him getting his feet wet in the DL for a season for several reasons.

    1. He's still very young. Could he play in the NBA at his age? Sure, he could. He might even become a star in the blink of an eye, but like I said before, why rush him if we don't have to? We have enough depth that we can afford to let him develop at a slower pace.

    2. We have 4 "rookies" on the team already. For AJ, he wouldn't get as much personal attention. For the Pistons, that's one less roster spot taken by a proven veteran. With 4 other young guys on the team, that might be a bit much.

    3. Someone has to fill out our DL roster!

    Also, Paulding played 3 years of college if I'm not mistaken. AJ was still in High School. They were at 2 very different points in their careers when they were drafted.

    By drafting AJ, the Pistons took advantage of the last opportunity to draft a high schooler under the old CBA. I think that was more of a proactive down the road pick, rather than an immediate need pick.

    Hey, if I'm wrong, great. That will only make the Pistons a better team.
  7. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Nice Corn Rows

    It seems to me that going from Los Angeles to Fayetteville for an 18 year old is a pretty darn big culture shock. Maybe even bigger than Europe depending on where you go in Europe. I would say that Los Angeles and London for sure and maybe even Los Angeles and Paris are more culturely akin than Los Angeles and Fayetteville. Even Los Angeles and Madrid or Barcelona are probably more culturely akin because of the hugh Spanish speaking population in Los Angeles

    I like his corn rows.

    http://syracuse.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=19387
  8. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    hi again

    Jammertime, you still don't get what I am saying, as far as I can tell. Sure you can send a player down to the NBDL, signed or unsigned, but if you are planning for a guy going down there for the whole year and not contribute to the team, then its kind of silly to sign him for that. Once signed, the clock starts ticking. You got two seasons and the parking meter expires.

    In other words, the cop tells you hey, if you start feeding the meter, your got to keep feeding it, and it runs out on you in two seasons. But if you don't feed the meter, no sweat, park there as long as you want, no charge. Which would you choose?

    The Pistons are paying Amir Johnson millions of dollars over the next two seasons. Why? They certainly could have chosen to pay him nothing. Leave him unsigned. Let him develop on his own dime.

    Joe ain't stupid. If Amir Johnson was not ready to contribute pretty much on an immediate basis, Joe would not have signed the guy.

    Darko and and Amir Johnson are both signed for this year and next season. Amir Johnson is more ready to play in the NBA than Darko is, according to the announcer from the summer games who worked Amir Johnson out for a couple weeks around draft time. So basically, if you think we should just take our time with Amir Johnson, the most athletic guy taken in the draft this year, you might as well be saying the same thing about Darko. Let them rot on the bench antother year. Waste another year. Forget that. Both are ready to play now.
  9. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    What Lee fails to recognize is that playing three rookies reduces your chance of winning.
    We already have three very green players that will be in the rotation (Delfino, Darko, Evans)... the vets don't need to lose even more of their deserved minutes to rookies
    AJ can work with a Piston assistant in Fayetteville on developing his game (like actually learning how to shoot)
    He may be also learning a brand new position (SF).
    If he starts to dominate down there he's just a phone call away.

    The more I read (and see) the more I think the Pistons have solid plans for Acker....starting this year (now four youngsters taking minutes)

    I'll predict that the league will be looking at this years Piston draft with envious eyes in the future... restoring Joe's drafting reputation.

    With the NBADL (not NBDL anymore) there's no pressing need to throw HS kids into the fire.
  10. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Pretty much sums it up right there...especially on a championship calibur team like the Pistons where the talent is 12/13 deep.
  11. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Dupree/ AJ

    After reading the reports from training camp, I'm in favor of leaving AJ off the roster this year and keeping Dupree. Next year, AJ will be stronger and more experienced and will probably be more mature mentally as well. Let him work on his game every day in the development league without the pressure of having to perform in garbage time. Dupree seems to be hungry to stay on this team. If there is an injury to Delfino or Evans, we need Dupree.
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    The things I have read about Johnson are, very athletic, tons of upside.

    Still doesn't know how to play the game anywhere near this level, and he does not have an NBA body.

    The kid will ROT on the Detroit bench this year, probably only getting in a little garbage time. It would probably do him wonders to be in a semi-pro environment where he can play 15~20 minutes every game or second game.

    As Merc mentioned, the D-League is not purgatory. One phone call and he can be added back to the active roster.

    Even if AJ goes to the D-League, he will still be occupying a position on the 15 man roster.

    But remember, AJ's on a guaranteed contract. The Pistons have 15 guys guaranteed with one on a conditional deal (Acker). Someone will have to leave if we keep Acker. I don't see it being AJ.
  13. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    AJ/ Dupree

    I didn't realize that they would still count on the 15 man roster. Can you give up the right to call him up and still have him play in the D-league?

    Dupree would probably do better in a motion/ fast break offense with a zone defense than he did last year under LB. He's an alley oop machine. Any conceivable way that we can keep him and Acker without a trade?

    What a great team, when this is actually a dilema.
  14. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I imagine he would have to go into a draft to fill out the remaining roster spots.

    This is disadvantageous because then the Pistons would not have input into his development or have an assistant work directly with him.

    Not to crap on Joe, but this is one of those things I would have hoped he would be ahead of the other GMs on. They knew it was going to happen, its wise to have a plan and from all interviews I have read, it sounds like he still is not sure how he will use the D-League to the Pistons best advantage this year.
  15. dthrush

    dthrush Second Round Draft Pick

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    I was wondering if we could get Lindsey to(so call) retire and make him an assistent coach.This way he could still practice with the team and come out of retirement if needed later in the season.We could get a better feel for all our youngsters with the added time this would create to look at them.
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I think they could, but to add him back later would require waiving a player.

    All it does is prolong the situation, because the guy you keep over Lindsey is going to get developed and then dumped. Don't overlook the fact that Lindsey also needs time working in the zone defense and Flip's offensive sets.
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Lindsay would probably learn the sets if he were helping to teach them. He could still play on the floor with the team if he were a coach, and we could pay him the same salary.

    And prolonging the situation is the idea. We don't really know at this stage if Acker is going to pan out, or how Dupree will overlap with Evans. Also, we don't know if someone will get injured, etc. We could probably sign Acker up pretty cheap right now.
  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Actually, he can't be paid as a player/coach. It's a violation of the CBA. The NBA did away with that some time ago to keep teams from double dipping by paying a player twice.

    We would need to waive Lindsey or buy him out. Waive and we risk losing him. Buy him out and his # still affects the cap.

    Then pay him to be a coach (or work out some backroom deal to coach for free). Then when it comes time to add him back, sign him to another deal (which we may or may not be able to do because of the veterans minimum and our cap position).

    Either way, the player we keep over Lindsey has to go if we add him back to the roster. And that player needs to be bought out or waived.

    I'm no capologist, so someone correct me if my take on this is off base. I'd like to know if I understand the scenario correctly.
  19. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Not to sound like a JD slappie but Joe's only a man. He's not superman. The D-league is spankin' new so there's a lot of question marks surrounding it. AJ is definitely a commodity. Is it worth the risks? Is it worth the benefit?

    Having said that, I think AJ should split time on the bench for the first half of the season and then get sent down for PT. Get him Piston-fied then tell him to take his piston-game to the D-league for some playing time.
  20. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    How the CBA addresses player/coaches... they can play a dual role... but they do count on the cap and take up a roster spot... kind of defeats the purpose.

    Here's how I see this thing playing out...

    Acker spends the first half of the season riding the pines (unless Arroyo or Chauncey are injured)

    We'll try to work out a 2-4-1 trade before the deadline... if this isn't succesful Acker will be waived (with full intentions of bringing him back)... no other team has seen him play to take a chance on him.
    Lindsey is brought back for the playoffs.
    Acker hooks on with an NBADL team or in Europe.
    All other teams have their own projects that they're high on ...overlooking Acker this year (he did get passed up twice in the draft)
    Hunter retires after this year... and Acker is signed next year with a gaurantee of a roster spot.

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