Return of Big Ben

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Jan 4, 2007.

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How do you feel about Ben playing against the Pistons?

Poll closed Jan 7, 2007.
  1. I miss Ben!

    15 vote(s)
    44.1%
  2. I like Nazr Mohammed!

    3 vote(s)
    8.8%
  3. Bring Darko back!

    1 vote(s)
    2.9%
  4. Goon Squad!

    15 vote(s)
    44.1%
  1. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Agree with all points. In fact, I'm going to find it pretty distasteful if Ben gets booed. Nobody ought to boo the guy who more than any of the others brought this town a title and a close miss on another. Surely we're not that petty.
  2. max

    max All-Star

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    News Archive. from Magic players are popular: Ben Wallace, Bo Outlaw, Chucky Atkins and Monty Williams are Orlando's latest free agents sought by others. - Market Size, Market Share and Demand Forecast

    Sorry Low, it was not a trade. Detroit would have signed Ben even if Orlando did not want to play ball on a s&t.

    below is from the Orlando Sentinel in the summer of 2000 - before the deal happend.
    This was after Hill agreed to sign with Orlando and before Ben agreed to sign here. There
    was a month lag between Hill agreeing with the Magic and the deal actually happening.
    In that time Dumars coaxed Ben to come here and he and the Orlando GM later agreed to do a sign/trade for cap reasons. Recall that there was a 1 month waiting period between when FA's could agree and when the contract was actually signed.

  3. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    He's not really getting booed here. He just went through a huge stretch where he was doing everything for the team.

    He is currently

    2nd in MPG
    1st in Rebs
    5th in assists
    1st in steals
    1st in blocks
    6th in points.
    1st in help defense*

    That is exactly what they thought they'd be getting when they signed him.


    * unofficial stat
  4. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    The sign-and-trade talk regarding Ben's initial move to Detroit also raises this point: once the Bulls made Ben their big offer this past summer, didn't that pretty much eliminate any chance of pulling off a sign and trade? He was moving to a team in the same division, so why would he agree to a move that would (when compared to just signing with them outright) weaken his new team while strengthening his now-division-rival former team?
  5. max

    max All-Star

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    One more archive

    Wallace is all business about move to Pistons. - Market Size, Market Share and Demand Forecast

  6. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Max, nice research. I forgot about some of those negotiating details.
  7. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    I wonder if Ben can co-exist with Skiles. Skiles is a little beetch, and Ben, as we have seen, has very little patience for coaches who get petty with him. But I guess as long as Scotty stresses defense, Ben will be OK.
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    As long as the Bulls win, they will both get along. Both men are fierce competitors.
  9. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    I completely forgot as well. Good memory Max. I don't think anyone thought he would have that much impact though. His upside at the time paled in comparison to Grant Hill's worth. Ben's hard work and effort made a deal that seemed initially like Ben was getting over turn into one of the biggest bargains in Pistons history.
  10. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    I think he tries to hide his emotions as part of his tough guy facade.

    Anyhow, if the fans boo he will say what all players say "I don't care...they paid their money so they can boo...I didn't even notice it...yada yada yada."

    If they cheer he will say what all players say "It made me feel so great when I heard them and they showed they appreciated all my years there...yada yada yada"

    How can they hear the applause but not hear the boos?????

    It's a bunch of B.S. Most players DO care irregardless of what they say publicly.
  11. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    I'm still :confused: trying to figure out who voted 'Bring Darko back!'
  12. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Ben is very emotional. If he gets booed at the Palace it will effect him, good or bad.
  13. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    :pound:It is so simple. Who loves Darko more than anyone, and who despises Ben?
  14. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    FA or not...he was traded here. He was surpised about the amount because his decision would have been made based on the opportunity to play which he was NOT receiving in Orland to the tune that he was going to get in Detroit.

    Bringing out brilliance: Ben Wallace's long road to the league makes his stardom all the more spectacular Basketball Digest - Find Articles

    CNNSI.com - NBA Basketball - Orlando finalizes sign-and-trades for Hill, McGrady - Thursday August 03, 2000 10:40 PM

    This was a sign and trade. Wallace did NOT sign with Detroit. Any money Atkins and/or Wallace got was a condition of making the sign and trade work for Hills huge contract. There was no overt effort by Ben Wallace to rake the Magic or Pistons for all the cash he could muster. If he had not been included in this deal he still would have had to negotiate his contract via agent and NO PLAYER IN THE UNIVERSE doesn't try to get as much as he can during a contract negotiation. The fact of the matter is, Detroit HAD to give him a certain amount to meet the requirements of the Collective Bargaining Agreement for a sign and trade.

    Painting that arrival in Detroit as some sort of financial coup for Wallace is just plain false.
  15. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    i was a little bitter during the summer, but i'll be giving ben a standing ovation when the bulls come here.
  16. max

    max All-Star

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    I don't know what else I can tell you Low. Rather than reading someones interperation of what happened like you posted, I posted the actual news articles as it happend.

    Jul 1-3 - Hill lands in Orlando and agrees to terms.

    Jul 4 - Dumars goes to plan B with the extra money he was going to spend on Hill and targets Ben.

    Early July - Dumars pegs Ben as his top FA target and offers him a 30 mil 5 year deal - Ben agrees.

    Aug 1 - Players could officially ink contracts but Dumars contacts the Orlando GM and asks him if he would like to do a sign and trade since both teams have secured agreements from each others FA's. I believe at this time Chuckie was thrown in to make the salaries work.

    Aug 3 - sign and trade happends.

    This has always been a confusing area for most. I followed it very closely back then and can tell you with 100% confidence that if the Orlando GM did not want to do a sign and trade then they would have signed Hill anyway and Dumars would have signed Ben anyway.

    Why bring this up? I am not revising history to make Ben look greedy like you had accused me of. It happened - Ben left Orlando for the money just like he left Detroit for the money. Accept it.
  17. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    FACT.
    CNNSI.com - NBA Basketball - Orlando finalizes sign-and-trades for Hill, McGrady - Thursday August 03, 2000 10:40 PM


    I don't need you to tell me anything else. If you want to call the AP "someone's interpretation of what happened." So be it.

    All parties signed with their respective teams BEFORE changing cities.

    Period.

    Orlando did Ben a favor. It worked out well for both teams and it was a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" kind of deal. The only reason Ben was consulted was because he was involved. You can't do a sign and trade if guys don't sign.

    Ben could have gotten the same cash without doing a sign and trade, but there was no reason for him to do so. It made the deal easier and Wallace was greatful for what he was about to receive. So, in turn, he went along so everything went smoothly. It had nothing to do with Ben making a dash for the cash.
    You have obviously decided to think of Wallace in a certain light and I assume you are going to maintain that no matter what the circumstances of that deal were.

    For the very reason that you pointed it out, it makes Ben look greedy which couldn't be further from the truth. You name a player, any player, that says "no, I won't take your 3.2 Million dollar raise." Saying he left Orlando for the money also insinuates that somehow he lacked loyalty to that organization. I would like you to find ONE individual involved with the Orlando Magic that though Ben Wallace just "left for the money." The entire scenario called for Wallace to end up someplace other than Orlando. Primarily he was looking to go someplace and get more PT to further his career. Other teams were somewhat interested although he probably got a bit more in Det as I don't have numbers for exactly what the other franchises were offering.

    You stating this fact is irrelevant to Wallace's chracter OR departure to CHI in that no player on earth would have refused the offer. This would make sense if there was a scenario where Wallace could have chosen to stay in Orland, but Orland was not interesting in keeping him. They were getting what they wanted in Hill and McGrady and couldn't have been happier.
  18. max

    max All-Star

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    That how Dumars made his name. Finding guys about to break out. Can also put the Billups signing ( for the MLE ) and the Rip trade ( for Stack ) in that same category.

    - I think its about time for another one of those moves.
  19. max

    max All-Star

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    They are not telling you the whole story in that article. That was dated Aug 3 2000. There was a month grace period that started in July in which FA's could verbally agree to deals but not sign. Dumars secured a verbal agreement from Ben in July and the Magic got one from Hill.

    the sign/trade was nothing more than an after the fact desicion to give bird rights to the FA's.

    Also - apparently Chuckie had also agreed to terms before the sign and trade.

    - See 11 days before your article talking about the sign and trade.
  20. max

    max All-Star

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    This is all I can post of this article without having to buy it.

    As you can clearly see its dated July 25 2000 which is a week before the sign and trade happened. Dumars had the cap space and would have signed them anyway. The trade was not even a thought, did not exist, at the time Wallace agreed to take Dumars offer.

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