Rip doesn't want to go to the bench

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by alexa032, Jan 10, 2009.

  1. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Wasn't half this thread spent extolling the virtues of McCosky and although he's not good analyist, he's not a liar, and he knows what's going on in the Pistons organization and reports what he knows, and is not fabricating things out of thin air ? So now him saying AI doesn't want to come off the bench b/c it's not a quote is pure speculation ? Classic.

    You can wait for a quote form AI that says "No i don't want to come of the bench", but i doubt it will happen. AI's the money and no one wants to make the money look bad.
  2. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Someone looks like their breaking their own rules. Nice insult.
  3. NYPistonFan729

    NYPistonFan729 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I probably am going out on a limb by saying that both players would not want to volunteer to come off the bench.
  4. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Not wanting to do something is not the same as refusing to do something or saying that it "isn't going to happen".

    You know this.

    If we are to judge both these guys by the words that have come out of their mouths (since Curry hasn't benched either of them yet), the two are not comparable.
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    You may have been insulted, but if we were enforcing people's sense of being offended, then there are certain people who would not be here at all anymore based upon the amount of "offense" they create.

    But, it doesn't work that way. You claimed your posts were analysis, and I dispute that. Feel free to prove that your posts, admittedly made while not watching the team play, are more than speculation.

    See, the rule is, no personal attacks. Contending the content of posts, validity and truthfulness of posts is totally ok. :)

    If you want to have an opinion, expect challenges. We don't post in a vacuum.
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Without a doubt. I don't think Tay has much interest in coming off the bench either.

    And while Stuckey's bargaining power is still relatively low, I can't see him being happy with a demotion.
  7. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Can we get a bleeping AMEN on that?????:frusty:

    Thank you Cloud.
  8. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    for the 500th time.... I don't care if they don't want to come off the bench... hell i don't think we want players on the team that don't want to start...

    The issue was/is/and will be players that put themselves above the team and refuse to do whats best for the team.

    You can rest assured if AI makes a comment that he refuses to come off the bench I will say the same exact things about him that I have Rip.

    You are getting lost here, there are two totally seperate issues...

    1. who should be coming off the bench and who should start. Its obvious you want Rip to start. For me, I have stated I am not sure but if was pushed... I would probably have Prince off the bench... gee I agreed with you Rip needs to start.

    2. Players need to not make selfish me before team statements like Rip made where he said I am not coming off the bench. If he would say he'd hate to come off the bench didn't want to come off the bench but if the coach asked him to he'd do what is best for the team, you wouldn't have heard word one out of me being disapointed in him. Hell I would be happy that he didn't want to be benched, but was willing to do it for the team.
  9. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    How convenient. Disguised insults.

    Well in that case, you should go back and read my post where i stated i've been missing games this season not not watching any games this season. In fact when i don't watch a game, you don't see a post analyzing the game in detail. I actually state i missed this game. Reading comprehension is not easy for everyone. And i don't mean that in an insulting way.

    I don't know why you're getting bent out of shape. My post wasn't directed at you. It was directed at a general sentiment in this thread. The point is AI doesn't doesn't want to come off the bench which i think deep down everybody knows. McCosky basically stated that he is on the same wavelength as Rip in terms of being against the idea. If you need a quote, then so be it. Rip has not been asked to come off the bench. AI has not been asked to come off the bench. Neither one has refused to come off the bench.There has been indications that they both don't want to it. It's pretty clear cut for me. If people want to wait for a quote that from AI that says he doesn't want to come off the bench then i'll wait for a quote from Rip where he's asked to come off the bench by the coach, and says no i won't do it.
  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Why would you insist that Chris is not virtuous? You can be very hard on people that from my understanding, you have never met.

    I think your statement is pretty accurate. Can someone prove that he has ever misquoted a player in what 15 years of reporting? And certainly someone who sees the players before and after each game, travels with the team on the road, and hangs out at the practice facility (while also likely being on JD's speed dial) probably knows a little bit about the team.

    No one said that.


    Maybe not. Maybe the Hamilton comment was leaked on purpose to gauge public perception should they trade Rip. Although Iverson has had plenty of his stupid comments dragged through the mud before.

    How Rip ever got away with "If it ain't rough, it ain't right" when Iverson got immortalized for "Practice" speaks to the different levels of scrutiny and expectations surrounding these two guys.

    AI has been playing and winning. Sitting him for Rip is nearly the equivalent of benching Tom Brady for Drew Bledsoe. You play the guy who is winning until he stop winning. Change to establish or re-establish an order that never really existed, and certainly was not earned, doesn't make any sense at all.
  11. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    First, I agree with all who have said that, while unfortunate and POTENTIALLY worrisome, Rip's comments are at the moment inconsequential. What matters much more is what he DOES if and when he comes off the bench.

    Second, I think that the whole "but AI wouldn't want to come off the bench either so why aren't you skewering him?" argument in defense of Rip doesn't hold water. The criticism of Rip was based on comments he made. AI hasn't made those comments (so far as I know he has not been quoted yet). Taht's not a double standard. That's just saying different things about two different realities.

    Of course, it COULD be that AI doesn't want to come off the bench (in which case I say, as I say of Rip, "Good for him!". It COULD be that Rip (or AI) come off the bench and show with their play that -- whatever they say -- they are not putting the team first. And It COULD be that AI or Rip don't WANT to come off the bench but are WILLING to for the good of the team and PROVE that will 100 % effort in that role. These of course are all the outcomes that really matter to a fan and we can certainly speculate about which one will eventually materialize, and we can bring forth (rational and irrational) arguments supporting our speculation.

    In the meantime, what we have is: Rip has shot his mouth off in a way that I find unsavory but not necessarily worrisome. AI hasn't said anything publicly except that he wants to do whatever will help the team win, that he's already accomplished all the individual goals and the only thing missing for him is a ring.

    I don't want to trade Rip. I want him to come off the bench. I want him NOT to want to come off the bench. And I want him to be unselfish and driven and mature enough to turn the negative of coming off the bench when he doesn't want to into the positive of contributing 15-20 efficient points, strong defense, and emotional leadership. (And, if AI were sent to the bench, I want exactly the same things).
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    You can claim an offense, but what you feel is immaterial. The standard is objective, not subjective.

    That said, report my post. The other guys are on the staff team because they aren't afraid to tell me I am wrong, and they certainly have the power and authority to reprimand me through Slippy.

    Which of the last 10 games have you watched?

    That's good, because it reads like a personally oriented comment.
  13. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I agree with you and not to get sidetracked, but it's been my impression that Dyess doesn't really want to start, and for some reason, I do want him on the team. Somehow his not wanting to start doesn't seem to me to indicate the lack of confidence, drive, and desire that I think we figure it would mean for most players. In his case, it seems like neither weakness nor false humility: just seems like a pretty realistic appraisal of the role in which he's most comfortable and so most effective. That said, he certainly seemed to try hard even when he was asked to start.
  14. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Saying AI doesn't want to come off the bench is a pretty strong statement wouldn't you think? Why would he make that statement if it wasn't based in truth?


    Where is the source for your statement?

    Surely, as someone studying law, you know the difference between proof and speculation

    What is the standard for winning; A .500 road trip?
  15. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Man, that's an excellent view.
  16. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Do you want a list?

    edited to add; since i'm annoyed, here's one anyway

    CHI,OKC,MIL,ORL,NJN,LAC,POR, i missed the last two; good enough?

    And i don't know what happened to Cloudwalkers post so i can't quote it, but

    This is what i said. Nowhere did i say i missed all the games. Nowhere did i say i missed a majority of the games. I said i've been missing alot and for me alot happens to be about 4 or 5 compared to me usually not missing any games. I'm not sure what about what i posted is so hard to understand.
  17. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Agreed... but Dyess is just a different type of player... he's very fast going up my list of favorite pistons.
  18. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    On a different note, this article and his comments on Rip and AI not wanting to come off the bench are a prime example of why I consider McCraper a terrible writer....

    He has a 2 day old quote from one player and as far as I can remember no comment from Ai about coming off the bench besides comments from his first press conference saying he'd do whatever the team asked him to do.

    Now how does he report that? He puts the two of them on equal footing saying neither wants to come off the bench. I call that sloppy reporting.....

    Honestly if he is going to ask Rip, he needs to go ask AI the same question.
  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    The difference between how it was reported was the difference between fact and assertion. Rip was directly quoted. McCosky is appealing to a commonly understood perception.

    In this case, I don't think anyone disagrees. It is absolutely unlikely AI wants to come off the bench, would be happy coming off the bench. But he's not saying that. He's not putting what he wants before the team.

    This didn't make any sense to me.

    7 game win streak without Rip? 9-2? Beating Orlando? Beating Denver on the road? Only losing to Portland by 1 point?

    Without Rip, they have like an 80% win rate. Is that an acceptable standard?
  20. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    In the minds of some it may corrupt your credibility somewhat to admit that you are casting judgment on an incomplete body of work.

    In legal terms it might be the equivalent of an "expert witness" admitting that they cheated in order to pass "alot" of their graduate courses.

    Regardless of what the individuals personal definition of the subjective term "alot" might be, their credibility is damaged.

    Personally I don't put an inordinate amount of stock in this, you've been watching the players for years and you know what you want; however, I do see where this could factor into another individual's views.

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