Rodney Stuckey HAS to go!

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by dozero, Oct 5, 2010.

  1. dozero

    dozero First Round Draft Pick

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    yup. after one pre season game i have concluded that our beloved point guard of the future has to go. it's for the good of the team. if we don't get a "real" point guard (can run plays that can get others involved, decent jumper, and 3 point range) we are WASTING the rest of the players strengths and causing us to have to work harder for points.

    after this sale goes through i am praying that we can swing a trade for a decent point guard.

    in a perfect world, it would be Stuckey and Gordon for that guard (Tony Parker, heck Barron Davis)

    this is going to get ugly and fast. i want to stay positive, but the reality is very simple: find someone that gives you what Billiups gave.

    • can run the half court game
    • willing to run when it's there
    • a threat from the top of the key and 3 point
    • willing to give the ball up
    Stuckey's inability to do these things neutralizes almost EVERY THING we bring to the table.

    the quick fix is start Bynum and Rip and work Stuck and Gordon off the bench.

    shoot, be honest, we were even better (as a team) when Atkins played. they don't trust Stuckey. you can see it.
  2. S.J.

    S.J. All-Star Forum Donor

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    Listen man.. I can feel your (let's call it "pain") about tonight's game..

    I can't talk about the game because I wasn't able to watch it, I wasn't home and even in home I would have to watch it in the internet and that sucks..

    I have read with close attention the boxscore and a lot of play by play's.

    Yes, Stuckey had an awful game and let's say I'm not a Rodney Stuckey fan, but I'm not a hater neither.. I think that we should see the first 5 games in the Season (not PRE-Season) and evaluate Stuckey from there..

    Not for just one night of 23 minutes in the field..

    I miss Chauncey too.
  3. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    This train of thought is not just from watching one pre season game. HE JUST DOESN'T GET IT!!!! He's never been, he is not, nor will he ever be a PG and the longer we go on fooling ourselves we do him and this team a genuine disservice. Oh and for the record, Terrico WHite looks even worse at the point.
  4. S.J.

    S.J. All-Star Forum Donor

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    Anyone who thought that Terrico White would be able to play the PG position was VERY wrong.. You can tell for watching just highlights of that guy that he is not a floor general.

    And Stuckey neither.
    I'm the first saying that he can't play the PG position.

    BUT you know what? .. when we Trade Stuckey to another team who also may have a true PG and Stuckey play the SG Starting position, he would become the player that Joe Dumars predicts.

    What i'm trying to say is that any other team can use Stuckey way much better than us, and then we will say things like " Stuckey can play the 2.. If we traded hamilton and Ben Gordon for a Starting PG and move Stuckey to the SG we may be better now" (or things like that with a good enlgish, of course.. )

    I'm not saying that Stuckey would be an all-star or nothing like that!!! (let's be clear on this)

    · He can't be a PG. Never. Even if Steve Nash and John Stockton train him.
    · The only chance that I see of him playing in ANY all-star game is if he plays the 2 position in a team when the PG is also a Star.
    · I'm not a Stuckey fan.
    · Not all of our problems are Stuckey's fault.

    Should we trade him? (or maybe the question should be this) Anyone would give us something USEFUL for Stuckey? What if happens as I poorly predict, that when we trade him for garbage, then He becomes a great player in another team and we still sank ?

    The answer here is not trading JUST Stuckey.

    Is trading a lot of people.. starting for Charlie Villanueva (for a TRUE 7 FOOTER CENTER for christ's sake). Then you can think of trading Stuckey and Rip too if you want to.

    I would also trade Ben Gordon because I don't like the idea of a 6'3'' SG ..

    (i'm not saying that height is the main thing in Basketball.. but the Pistons have a lot of PHYSICAL problems in his roster:

    · Undersized players:

    By Height: Ben Gordon - Jason Maxiell - (I won't add Will Bynum here, although I doubt it.. because the guy have prove and will keep proving that he can play.. but Is he a 6 footer PG ?? or SG?? If he is consider as a Shooting Guard, you have to add it here..)

    By Weight (or strenght if you want to call it):

    Daye (too slow to play SG, I mean.. You won't allow this man penetrate never.. if he gets the ball you know he is going to shoot from where he is stand or pass the ball or maybe post up (which is not a weakness, is a strenght, but he is too young to use that to his advantage so is a disvantage for THE PISTONS) And he is not strong enough to play the PF position although he has the enough height to do it.
    Monroe (who is the new guy so He may be a surprise.. I have faith in him but I REALLY don't see him playing the C, at least not until his third year in the NBA)
    Villanueva (no athlethism)


    Sometimes it can HELP YOU have a few players that can play 2 or MORE positions.. but almost ALL the Pistons players can do it! and we lack of a true Center and a true Point guard!

    Check a look at this:

    Rodney Stuckey SG forced to play as a PG
    Will Bynum PG (But not the type of PG (Floor general) that a Team need to get to the playoffs)
    Tracy McGrady SG/SF
    Charlie Villanueva PF/SF
    Jonas Jerebko SF/PF
    Greg Monroe PF that will be forced (or expected) to play the C
    Ben Wallace PF/C (special case here.. the 7 years ago Ben Wallace would be a no doubt C that would give us what we need but I love so much Ben that I can't be mad at him for staying with us 2 more years)
    Austin Daye SG/SF/possibly future PF
    Rip Hamilton SG (True SG) but forced sometimes to play as an SF (Which in offensive plays is like you play with two Shooting guards, but when it comes to the defense, he is guarding taller and stronger players which has advantage over him)

    How can you have your players understand their roles if you don't give them a static role? .. Again, it can help you ALWAYS have a few players who can play 2 or more positions (like Lamar Odom for the Lakers) but not ALL your team.. especially when you don't have a true Point Guard who distributes the ball, and a true center that boxes out so he can grab the rebounds.
  5. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Let Stucko ride thru a few more preseason games and find a real PG and trade him and somebody else (Wilcox, maxiel or Summers) so that this team can have some direction

    Stuckey, Gordon, Hamilton, Tmac, White ...to many SG's not to mention the Tay/Daye...big combo SF/SG

    Come on Joe, stop fooling yourself with the Stuckey experiment..
  6. Tally

    Tally First Round Draft Pick

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    From the outside it looks like Joe is turning into one of those "hoarders" you see on TV. The Palace is packed to the mezzanine with shooting guards and he won't even get rid of the ones that don't work anymore.

    The hoarder has their own value system that doesn't make sense to non-hoarders.
  7. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    :pound:@ the overreactions to a pre-season game.

    I'd sure like to know who played well last night (minus Prince) and I don't see anyone else calling for THEM to be traded.

    Comical!
  8. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I'm not getting this notion that Stuckey really is a secret two guard. Even if he played the two, he still can't shoot the ball, and his size would become an even bigger issue. I just don't see him guarding most NBA twos.

    Just because it may not be a very good one doesn't make him a two. But it might make him a backup or a third stringer.
  9. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    No offense guys, but there is no way you can credibly make this anti-Stuckey case after only the first exhibition game. BB is a game of rhythm, and it takes time (generally) to get into rhythm.

    The Pistons have a number of big issues. I'm not sure whether we have or don't have good answers to them at this moment in time - and we might not get these settled for 1/2 the season as we sort them out:

    1) Stuckey and Bynum at PG: I have eyes. It's clear Stuckey's been awkward so far at PG (based on the scrimmage and 1st ex-game), but I've watched him for too long to think that he has regressed. He's the best player on our team and the cream will rise to the top. Bynum is a tremendous bench guy and backup. The issue isn't with them, it's with do we put guys aroundt them that compliment their talents. McHale last night pointed out Stuck is a combo guard, and that that works great if you pair him with another combo guard. McHale pointed out that that's what Boston did with Dennis Johnson - a combo guard. He got paired with Ainge and that worked great. Gordon and Rip really aren't that type of player and that's a potential problem. HOWEVER, IMO the problem is solvable because we've got 3 guys very capable of running the offense either as point forwards (or SG's) (i.e., Tay and Daye) or in a Princeton type offense - (i.e., Monroe), and because we have great 3 pt shooting with Daye and Gordon and even Rip at times, and CV - opening the lanes for Stuckey and Bynum, two super penetrating guards.

    2) Defense and rebounding - especially defense. We may simply not have the horses and/or the experience to be good in those areas. Ben Wallace and Tay know how to play, but they're hardly athletic whirlwinds at this point in their careers. CV, highly questionable - he did look faster and healthier, but I'm not willing to say he's a good defender/rebounder at this point. He needs to prove it to me, and I'm skeptical. JJ just got injured. I'm really hoping that this isn't serious - if he blew his achilles out, then CRAP CRAP CRAP. If its just a sprain/strain/bruise, then this might be a blessing in disquise as we could see a lot more of Daye. (I love Daye, and I'll be ticked off if he doesn't get a lot of PT this season). I'll also be unhappy if Maxiell gets a lot of PT this season. I'm not a Maxiell fan - great guy, tries hard, is just too limited.

    3) Chemistry chemistry chemistry.

    4) Ben Gordon/Rip/Stuckey/Daye/McGrady - c'mon, we just aren't going to have room to play all 5 guys who could/should get PT at SG. I really truly honestly for real, no kidding, believe Rip doesn't fit our team concept very well. I also firmly believe that Daye would be a great SG in this league and perfect for the style of play and personnel this team has. He's the best guy on the team to be the perfect combo guard to play with Stuckey and Bynum. McGrady is the wild-card. If he makes it back, then all hell breaks loose on this team.

    5) JJ's injury.
  10. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Well said dba!

    I hear people talking about the possibility of Super Collider becoming an all-star one day and I haven't seen anything from him to even put that thought in my head. The ONLY chance that Rod Stuckey has to be "special" in the NBA is at the point. As a PG, he could use his size as an advantage. Problem is, he just doesn't have the quarterback mentality that's required.

    Stuck would be merely an "average" off-guard if he was switched to that position. He would no longer have the size/strength advantage that he has at the 1.

    I'm not opposed to trading him. I've seen enough of him to know what he can and can't do. If he stays with the Pistons though, it has to be at PG or as a change-of-pace SG off of the bench.
  11. dozero

    dozero First Round Draft Pick

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    Well, that's the point! Do we have the resources to be a competitive team, yes. Do we have the point guard that allows those resources to be utilized, no.

    I'll explain:

    Starting line up is Stuck, Rip, Tay, JJ, Ben. Two good energy guys, but not offensive threats, a very good all around player, but thin with a slow dribble and release, a scoring machine, but needs the ball passes to be effective, and an oversize point with no jumper or 3 ball.

    Now, without the jumper and 3 it allows the defense to pack the lane, and that's the end of his strength (going to the hole). it also allows the defense to slack off and play help defense on the perimeter and their bigs to stay in the paint.

    If he was a passer, Rip and Tay could spot up for a three, but he's not so the defense just plays him and goes for the block.

    If he was a passer, he'd be able to hit Rip more often on the curl or dump it to the bigs off penetration.

    Tripping off ONE PRE-SEASON GAME? No. Stating that one move could possible change the entire dynamic of the team.

    Wanna know why AI was brought in? Stuckey = Arron McKie.

    Shoot, that's why Gordon was brought in. He was suppose to be AI 2.0.

    I'm out.
  12. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think you are onto something, Tally. I wouldn't be surprised if he rents a storage facility to store a bunch of them.

    This thing with Stuckey isn't based on one preseason game. It's just that we keep hoping things will change in the offseason and then we are shocked when Stuckey is has the same game. I was hoping the fact that he got in better shape would somehow make him a pass first point guard with a nice shooting touch..
  13. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    You haters need to ease-up on Rodney Stuckey.
    I didn't think he played that bad for a rookie in his first pre-season game against NBA comp.

    He'll come around.
  14. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    I certainly agree with this. One preseason game doesn't say anything but the thing that worries me is the play during previous seasons. It has given me some doubt and I think progress during the first half of the season is crucial and if it doesn't look better in february it's time to start thinking about plan B imo.

    However, I haven't given up on you yet.
  15. dozero

    dozero First Round Draft Pick

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    huh?

    you're kidding, right?
  16. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Some consider him a perpetual rookie.
  17. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    About what?
  18. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    After sitting behind the pistons bench watching the dynamics of the team as a whole, I am really, really concerned.

    A PG is the floor general, he makes things go when he is on the floor, he owns the team, guides, directs i.e., and when he comes into the huddle he is quarterbacking that team, blasting them if they screwed up a play, giving them a atta boy when they do, he is the leader on that team.

    I am not bashing Stuckey, however, I think he is just not wired to be that type of guy. His body language tells it all, he is not a facilitator. You cannot rebuild him and instill in him the discipline and other tools it will take for him to be that leader, he also does not possess the physical or mental skills.

    Just looking at him last night, even taking into consideration that this is only the first pre-season game, each time he came to the bench, he looked defeated, he did not say two words to his teamates the entire game, that in itself is bad.

    There was absolutely zero, zilch enthusiasm on this team. You would think that after the long season break, the players would have at least a tad bit of excitement.
  19. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    interesting perspective Army girl. Will Stuckey own this team - or does it own him? I didn't like hearing that he wasn't vocal with his teammates.
  20. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    holy overreactions batman. the simple fact is that stuckey was our best player last year. he was one of very few NBA guards to average 18/4.5/4.5 or better. this is the first year he's coming into the season without a different head coach / system from the previous year. he has improved every year and the 4th year is where players often turn the corner. he's playing alongside rip who just doesn't fit in with his style of play. he's a good defender.

    we've got more pressing things to worry about than stuckey. if he doesn't turn the corner this year, fine, deal with it...but i'm not bailing on him now.

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