Discussion in 'Detroit Pistons General Discussion' started by G-man, Mar 25, 2011.
I'd bet that Joe D will send Stuckey to the lottery to represent the franchise.
The way things are looking he'll represent the franchise as a one man war room to make sure the picks fit him. He making the picks, presenting the picks, choosing the staff - this guy runs everything except the offense.
You don't see anyone offering him more than Will Bynum money? Come on dude. I can see at least one team in our division alone that would gladly offer him that.
Of course, who knows how the new CBA will look, but I doubt it will change so dramatically that a guy like Stuckey can be signed long term at just $3 million per. That's completely unrealistic. Heck, that's less than half of what Charlie makes.
EDIT: 3 million a year is actually half a million less than what Will Bynum is making per year on his new deal. Stuckey's qualifying offer alone is worth just over 3.8 million. It doesn't really matter what you think he's worth (though I don't see how anyone could think he's worth less than Bynum, but I've come to accept that some people here just have an unhealthy disliking of Stuckey), he's going to at least double that salary.
I'd say Stuckey did a pretty good job of running the offense since the ASB.
I don't know him so it is hard for me to dislike him. His game does not impress me to the point that I wouldn't miss him. I get disappointed when I read that Stuckey's opinion matters when it comes to the selection of the next coach. Just doesn't seem that he's earned anything close to that level of respect. Truthfully...I would pay him less than Bynum. It's ok for you to disagree with me. it's just my opinion.
If you'd pay him less than Bynum, then clearly other things other than basketball ability are factoring into this decision, right?
of course....but also remember that both of us will have differing appreciation levels for Stuckey's skills as a player and leader. We may look at the same statistics, but just interpret them differently. Really...the only thing left is to see what happens with the team...and Rodney, and then form opinions based on those decisions.
Obviously I don't know Rod on a personnel level but from what I can tell from interviews and articals, he's a good dude.
Because of the fact that he was essentially handed the keys to the team (prematurely), he seems have a head full of "I'm the MF'n MAN!" about him and I don't think he has earned that yet. IMO, Rodney, after 4 seasons of being annointed, STILL hasn't earned a starting PG spot in the NBA. He's been given the job. He hasn't earned it.
Factoring all of that in though, I still think he's a good dude. I'd love to see the kid develop other parts of his game and become a complete PG. I'd love to see him become a perimeter threat. I'd love to see him make his teammates better and be a leader.
I haven't seen it yet though. I've seen a glimpse here and there but I haven't seen anything that makes me believe that Stuck will be a winning PG in the association.
I believe that the league is full of guards (Will Bynum included) that would put up similar numbers as Rodney if they were given the same chances that Rodney has been given to do so.
This whole "unhealthy dislike" for Stuckey argument is pretty tired. My opinion of Stuck's play has nothing to do with liking him or disliking him. I think a lot of other so called "Stuckey haters" share that sentiment. I don't dislike Rodney Stuckey. I have no basis to even form an opinion of the guy on a personal level.
...I do however have a "unhealthy dislike" for the way that Rodney plays basketball at times.
...and I do have an "unhealthy dislike" for the idea of paying Rodney Stuckey "Charlie-V money" to be the starting PG of the Detroit Pistons when the league is full of players that can do what he does for cheaper the you feel he's worth.
How much DO you feel he's worth?
I think so too, but Mogilny's comment was really funny.
my number one stat for a PG is win/loss... and so far he's failed at that.... same reason I have issues with westbrook so far in this years playoffs... he's almost more worried about his stats then running the team to its best benefit.
I don't think this team has a starting PG on the team, and hasn't since Billiups was traded away.
Bilups had enviable team members ( and they fit with eachother like five fingers in a glove) and irreplacable coach at the title year.
Rodney has nothing.
IMO blaming Rodney for everything here has become very annoying habit here.
Why do you think that? Why do you think that Stuckey's been in such a perfect situation here that almost anyone could do what he's done? Prior to Monroe's development, Stuckey had the worst offensive front court in the entire league (and if Wilcox leaves, he arguably still does), a malcontent at shooting guard, a ball stopping small forward and 3 coaches in 4 years (yes, everyone who has been on this team since 2008 has also had 3 coaches in 4 years, but it's a little different when you are the point guard and these are your first 4 years in the league too).
Still, attitude issues aside this year, Stuckey showed some real development in his game the last 20 or so games of the season. Please don't site other "runs" of games where he put up some big scoring numbers. Stuckey's never combined efficient scoring with good passing and great decision making like he did at the end of this year. I like what I see. And I value him at least double what you do. Maybe you tuned the team out and missed this, like so many Piston fans did (if the game threads and chat were any indication of who was watching the games).
It's no big deal, but it says a lot to me if you don't even want to pay Stuckey what our backup point guard makes. That tells me that you don't want him back under any circumstances because there's no chance of him being resigned for that low.
I'm sure BDL is not talking about coaches and teammates when he says Stuckey has had opportunities. He's probably referring to the last 3 years, where Stuckey has been getting 30-35 minutes per game and the green light to jack up 12-15 shots per game. Most players will put up good stats with that sort of opportunity.
forget about anybody else on this team makes.... How much do you think Stuckey is worth going forward? One bad contract doesn't warrant another... I think Bynum is overpaid... I know that CV and Gorden to this point haven't earned there contracts... But new owner... we need to start fresh, and overpaying yet another player isn't going to fix anything...
So the question I have for you is how much is Stuckey worth going forward?
we'll see that after new CBA, I guess.
Well, here's the league salaries by position:
Stuckey is the 47th highest paid among PGs, and 56th highest paid among SGs.
For argument's sake, let's assume that Stuckey is an average starting guard. #15 PG (T.J. Ford) made $8.8M, #15 SG (Ray Allen) made $10.5M. Purely based on that, Stuckey's worth about $9.5M.
Now, let's analyze that table a little more closely, starting with the PG position. Let's get rid of the grossly overpaid players (Arenas @ $17.7M, Maurice Williams @ $9.3M, Jose Calderon @ $9M, TJ Ford @ $8.8M) and players that are obviously not PGs (Joe Johnson, Wade etc). Then the 15th PG (Beno Udrih) makes $6.5M.
Now let's do the same exercise with SGs. Grossly overpaid: Redd ($18.3M), Arenas ($17.7M), Carter ($17.5M). Not SG: Paul Pierce, Kirk Hinrich, Stephen Jackson. Then the 15th SG (JJ Redick) makes $7.3M.
Average those two numbers out and Stuckey's worth about $6.9M. So, based on the current NBA salaries for his position, a realistic market value for Stuckey would be somewhere between $6.5-7.5M per year. Ironically, that's not so far off from the number that various members of this forum have been suggesting.
To follow-up on my previous post, I wanted to see if I was being unfair to Stuckey labeling him an average starting guard (ranked 15th). So, I tried to see if I can name 14 PGs and 14 SGs that are better than, or at least comparable to Stuckey.
Clearly better than Stuckey (10): Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Tony Parker, Chauncey Billups, Monta Ellis, Steve Nash, Derrick Rose, John Wall, Russell Westbrook, Brandon Jennings.
Comparable to Stuckey (6): Jason Terry, Raymond Felton, Kyle Lowry, Luke Ridnour, Devin Harris, Jason Kidd
So, that's about right. Give or take a few.
Clearly better than Stuckey (5): Kobe, Joe Johnson, Wade, Manu, Stephen Curry
Comparable to Stuckey (12): Jason Richardson, Brandon Roy, Iguoadala, Kevin Martin, Ray Allen, Jason Terry, Jamal Crawford, JR Smith, Randy Foye, Eric Gordon, Tony Allen, Spellcheck
So, that's about right too.
I am going to have to vehemently disagree with the notion of Brandon Jennings being "clearly" better than Stuck. If anything, that's backwards. For people who dislike Stuckey's inefficiency, look at Jennings'...
Not sure I agree with Billups being clearly better at this point or John Wall (again horribly inefficient, didn't improve his team this year from last). Also, Monta Ellis is a shooting guard.
But that's nitpicking. If we're going based on his career, then yeah, I'd agree that Stuckey is no better than average. But if Stuckey can take what he did at the end of last year (post ASB), he's clearly better than average. Obviously, it remains to be seen if he can sustain it and even improve on that. I'm a Stuckey homer, so I think he can.
Separate names with a comma.