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Rodney

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by G-man, Mar 25, 2011.

  1. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    The good news is it only took 4 years of guaranteed PT for Stuckey to have those good 20 games. If he plays until he's 50 he might start knocking down some J's at the tail end of the 2037 season.
     
  2. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    If Stuckey can sustain a 20ppg/10apg/5rpg game while shooting around 50% for an entire year, he'd be a top 5 PG in this league. I hope he can. But hoping for Stuckey to do that has been an exhausting affair so far.
     
  3. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Yeah to buy one is much easier than grow one, I meant mango.

    This is the instant media age, face matters. Had Tony Allen got some Tony Parker look on his face he wouldn't had to warm Boston's bench that long. LOL.

    Guess that's because Stuckey looks like someone whom many people see as the bad guy so lot of people envision that he is the guy they don't want to see him around their community.

    This team has not been handed to Stuckey, in stead, my perspective, he's Joe's "let's see if it works" experiment along the road of rebuild on a hard working young man who had flares okay with a B+. Hey, 2t4u, if the Piston ain't go'in to pay him his fair share someone would, don't worry. To buy one is much easier to grow one, there's a long list we can go on and on and on . . .

    Things are usually clearer by getting closer, distance as I am, was confused over here that some fans bashed Joe forced his coach's hand by listen to his players too much while some others complaint he just left everything to his coach.
     
  4. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    If they meant to hand him the team, they would have offered him a extension to sign last summer.
     
  5. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    You still haven't answered the question of what kind of contract you would offer Rodney if you we're the one with the tub of popcorn and the Blackberry. I'm not asking this to attack you. I'm merely curious to hear your thoughts.
     
  6. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    Here is how I would rank the other teams starting PG's (I added Felton too for no specific reason other than he's pretty good so there is one extra) against Rodney. I didn't care about age, contract or whatever - I only ranked them by how good I find them today. (the Western guys might be a bit off since I watch alot more Eastern hoops but their ranking represents my perception of them)

    Clearly better (7)

    Rajon Rondo
    Deron Williams
    Derrick Rose
    Chris Paul
    Tony Parker
    Russell Westbrook
    Steve Nash

    Better (10)

    Baron Davies
    JRue Holiday
    Ty Lawson
    Raymond Felton
    Andre Miller
    Devin Harris
    Chauncy Billups
    John Wall
    Kyle Lowry
    Mike Connelly

    About the same (6)
    ยด
    Jameer Nelson
    D.J. Augustin
    Stephen Curry
    Jose Calderon
    Brandon Jennings
    Jason Kidd

    Worse (7)

    Kirk Heinrich
    Luke Ridnour
    Mo Williams
    Derek Fisher
    Beno Udrih
    Darren Collison
    Mike Bibby

    I'd say Rodney is somewhere in the middle of the "About the same" category, which puts him behind 20 PG's and infront of 10. If we add age to the situation things change a bit, I'd take Rodney over Kidd, Billups, Miller and even Nash (that's a stretch, it would be pretty entertaining to see him run our offense but I'm thinking more longterm teambuilding here) but I'd also bump up Collison to Stuckey level. With this in mind I'm somewhere around where Walt ended about with slightly over 15 (maybe closer to 20) PG's I'd take ahead.

    Since he can play the SG pretty well too it increases his value somewhat but I didn't have the energy to rank all the SG's too right now. Maybe a later project.

    Edit: Without a closer look at it I think I would take Stuckey over all the bench PG's except Felton who I already included but I might be missing someone. I don't think a guy like Bynum would add the same production in his position on offense and certainly not on defense.
     
  7. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    @ Mog:
    Are you talking about "the last 20 games of 2011" Rodney or Rodney's complete body of work?

    (IMO - Steph Curry belongs in the group above Rodney & aside from his age, so does J-Kidd.)
     
  8. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm talking about the whole package. The last 20 games bumped him up somewhat but alot of PG's can have a good run of games so I'm not going wild because of that.

    You are probably right about J-Kidd, I have hardly seen him play this year except in the playoffs and against the Pistons. I'm not so sure about Curry, he's better on offense but Rodney is better on defense. Isn't he also one of those undersized SG:s playing PG? I can't say I've seen loads of Warriors games either though. I do remember his run for ROY in the end of last season and the guy surely can shoot so maybe you are right.

    Edit: LOL! What am I talking about? I'd trade Rodney for Curry in a heartbeat.
     
  9. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Curry is a weak 1-on-1 defender but still gets a lot of steals. He also snags a ton of boards for a PG of his size and will even block a few shots. He's got some decent leadership skills and his playmaking will continue to improve.
     
  10. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    Tough to say until the new CBA is intact, but I'd probably offer him close to the money that Villanueva got (who does not deserve that). I think that's a contract that Stuckey can easily live up to and outperform.

    Anyway, there is some definite difference of opinion that you and I and others here have on Stuckey when it comes to where he "ranks" among point guards. Based on this past year, I'm not seeing much of an argument for Jennings, Davis, Felton, Wall (nice assist totals, but horrible turnover and shooting efficiency AND defense) and Conley being better, like others have thought. Man, I think Stuckey would thrive on that Memphis team.

    To steal a famous line from Charles Barkley (that I'm sure everyone here has heard if they watch TNT Basketball): "I may be wrong, but I doubt it". ;)
     
  11. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    At least we can both agree that Chuckles Villanuava is overpaid.:hoops:
     
  12. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    CV makes $7M a year. I would agree that Stuck's worth that normally. But, so long as we have $27M tied up between Rip, Gordon and Bynum, that may be too cost prohibitive for the Pistons.
     
  13. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    He wouldn't crack their top nine rotation players (not even counting Gay). He might beat out the rookie (the real kind) Vasquez. There is 0.0 chance that he beats out Conley, Mayo or Allen for time. 0.0.

    One thing I've noticed during these playoffs is the drastic step up in the quality of play. I've yet to see 1 guy clumsily dribble his way up the court with his head down for a basket while the D fails to pick them up. Maybe all the players lack Stuckey's particular skill set and are incapable of doing this. I doubt that is the case though.

    The Pistons seem light years from being a playoff quality team to me. I feel like I'm watching a different sport.

    Grizzlies Roster | Grizzlies
     
  14. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    LOL

    This is some serious hyperbole. I can't even take this seriously, it's so far out in left field. Stuckey is actually the best player of the four you just mentioned. Mayo is close in terms of potential, but he massively underperformed this year. Allen is a career bench player (he's good at his role, but lets be real here. You think Stuckey is such a bad ball handler/decision maker... have you ever watched Tony Allen when asked to do those things? Awful) and Conley is just a bit above average. Just like Stuckey.

    But sure thing... Stuckey would play zero minutes on that team. Right.

    Typical grass is greener on the other side mind set. Conley was hardly that impressive this year and he played with a far more talented roster than Stuckey did. To say he wouldn't even get playing time on that team is absolutely laughable and pure hyperbole.
     
  15. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Is the Hyperbole like the Arena Football Superbowl or something like that?
     
  16. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Rodney negotiating with Dumars:

    [​IMG]
     
  17. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    I would start thus: 4 years @ 30 Mil with incentives built-in.




    This is a fair offer. Some opposites could be head scratchers:
    • Value of the above contract will have it's leadership placement. As PG you must gain (what ever new player mixture) a plus 10 victories over last season. This is irrespective of coaching decisions.
    • Missed games are the direct result of in-game responses and no penalties. Out-reach responses are the direct reaction against coaching (GM) sensibilities.. For the latter, you pay an automatic fine of $50,000 and the setting out (no uniform dressing) of three games. This dove-tails into a complete definition and explanation, that is understood as expressed (media exposure), by the GM. Transparency is now visible from bottom to top. Obviously, one would hope that the media would understand and comprehend that any "no comment" from contractual player is admittance of personal "blow-back", resulting from immaturity on their part.
    I could include other additions. But, this is a good start. In a sense, it is a young person's journey toward a joyful life, that must understand the life of association: The Pawnbroker: The Pawnbroker (1964) - IMDb)

    [Unhappy are they] who struggle to be persons, not machines; to whom the Universe is not a warehouse, or at best a fancy-bazaar, but a mystic temple and hall of doom.

    Carlyle (as quoted, Angel in Armor, Ernest Becker, Part III): The Pawnbroker: A Study in Basic Psychology).
     
  18. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    @2T4You

    OJ Mayo has been instrumental in the upward climb of the Griz because he willingly gave up shots and his role as the top dog to Gay for the betterment of the team. That alone makes Stuckey a bad fit for his role because it wouldn't be all about him.

    Allen is a bench player (who has started every playoff game) which gives him something in common with Stuckey. He is a shaky ball handler/decision maker, but he does not fancy himself a PG. He is also a lot better at what he does - playing D - then Stukey is at what he does. (Unless we're counting refusing to re-enter games because you can't play the starring role.) Allen too has played a huge part in transforming the Griz into the team they've become.

    Conley has done a great job of creating tempo, running their offense and hitting both 3's and pull up J's. It is no contest to me.

    I think both Mayo and Conley could put up bigger numbers if they weren't figuring out how to win. Mayo certainly could, but in only his 2nd year he has seen the light. That is impressive for a kid who was compared to LBJ.
     
  19. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I'm not in favor of this contract, but I bet you are DEAD ON when Joe D locks him up in a couple of months.

    I'm still hoping for the ping pong balls to fall our way and a PG of the future to land in our lands on draft day.
     
  20. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    Did OJ Mayo's willingless to give up more shots for Gay also cause him to become one of the most inefficient offensive players in the NBA this season? Usually, the lower the shot attempts, the more efficient a player becomes.

    Tony Allen is a specialist who plays 20 minutes a night. He's no different than a guy like Charlie in that sense, although his role is a far rarer quality and a far more important one. Still, that doesn't make him a better player than Stuckey, who is asked to do A LOT more than Allen. Stuckey is a decisively better all around player. Don't see how that's arguable.

    I look at Conley and I see a smallish guard who gets abused on the defensive end. I see a guy who doesn't even put up much better assist numbers than Stuckey, despite having a plethora of front court options at his disposal that Stuckey doesn't. Stuckey's arguably a better passer (or equal passer), a decisively better scorer and decisively better defender.

    Look at the Grizzlies and look at how they've won in the playoffs. On the backs of their bigs (Randolph and Gasol). They haven't won because of Conley's awesome playmaking abilities or Tony Allen's shutdown defense or OJ Mayo being a sparkplug off the bench. The Grizzlies are successful because of what they have up front. I believe that if you took that front court and put those players on this Piston team, they'd be almost as successful as Memphis. But the difference wouldn't be due to Stuckey/Conley. It would come down to Memphis also having better role players than we do.
     

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