Rotations, part... Joe D: Jennings isn't guaranteed a starter job

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by mikhail1973, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    On a per 36 minute time frame, here are 2 players from last season on the Pistons:

    Knight- 15.2 points on .511 TS%. 4.6 asts to 3.1 turnovers. PER = 12.0. WS/48 = +.022

    Stuckey- 14.5 points on .505 TS%. 4.5 asts to 2.2 turnovers. PER = 13.0. WS/ 48 = +.055



    Knight was traded for Brandon Jennings. Half the forum wants to flat out release Stuckey.


    In reality, both PERs are below league average. Knight seems to have more potential, but Stuckey is sort of a rookie still, so it's not clear how high his ceiling is.
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  2. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    As long as we are comparing these two guys:
    Brandon Knight - 2nd year guy trying to earn his way on the team by working his butt off. ...Outstanding teammate with great attitude. [rookie salary scale - a little under $3 mil.]

    Rod Stuckey - 6th year guy who has shown very little in the way of self-improvement or development despite basically being HANDED the franchise. ...Whiney, bad attitude, coach killer. [2nd highest player on the team - a little under $9 mil.]
  3. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    The money has already been committed. It makes no sense to favor one player over another just because they get paid differently. One may be easier to trade than the other, but when you're talking making use of your personnel, it should be performance only. I agree with you that Knight has more "potential".

    My point is that these guys had very similar performances last year. Stuckey's was slightly better, but it was against other teams' benches. Both performances were poor.

    Not sure that the pattern of coach killing can be blamed on Stuckey. If we were playing Clue, you'd notice that JD is holding the dagger, rope, lead piping, candlestick, revolver, and wrench.
  4. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    It couldn't have been Joe, his hands were tied with the rope.
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  5. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    I agree with what you said above. Money shouldn't influence who plays and who doesn't.
    However, It should influence how you build your roster (who stays and who goes).

    Knight was traded because his rookie contract, age and attitude were attractive.
    Joe hasn't been able to trade Rodney because of his (stupid) contract, LACK of upside and his track record of being a malcontent.

    It's not Stuckey's fault that he's overpaid. He signed the deal that Joe game him. ...Joe's fault-not his!
    The goal isn't to point fingers. The goal should be to recover from a bad decision. I'm open to any and all ways to do this. The way I see it, there are two ways for this to happen:
    1. Stuckey can play a lot better and make a contribution helping the team win games. He can work hard, improve his game and be thankful he is a well-paid NBA Player. By doing this, he'll make himself into a marketable player and open up possibilites for himself.
    2. Joe can find another team who has a plan that includes acquiring expiring contracts and trade Rodney for a player that makes more sense to have on our roster.

    Rodney's expiring deal is basically the only thing that is remotely attractive about him anymore.
    Guys who put up his numbers can be had for a lot less than $9 million per year.
  6. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Just bad GMing when you boil it down.

    Stuckey isn't a fun player to watch IMO. He is pretty decent at avoiding turnovers though, especially passing turnovers. His assist to bad pass ratio is very point guard like. Guess that's because he was trained under Chauncey.

    As it stands, we have a bench player with a PER below the league average who is paid like a B list starter. We're stuck with Stuck.

    But maybe... Mo Cheeks can find a way to use his special talents. He delivers body blows to the opponent (and anyone else who happens to be standing behind the basket).
  7. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    absolutely!

    Stuckey had all the tools to be a great player. Dude had size, skills and athleticicm.
    He just couldn't ever figure out how to run a team or hit a jumper.
    ...and it's not like he didn't get his chances!

    (I really enjoy refering to him in the past tense like this.)
  8. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    And I really hope he doesn't show any hints this year that he's about to figure it out. I don't think I can stomach another Rodney Stuckey contract extension.
  9. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    What happens when Sieve (CV) and Sticky are gone? Every team needs a whipping boy - this forum especially needs one (for the jokes mostly). I have this funny feeling Sticky is gonna have a breakout season. He's not a leader, he needs leadership. I think Chauncey can help him.
    It would be extremely funny for all of us to have to swallow after so many jokes for so long. It would be a tough mindset change that's for sure. But it wouldn't be like 'you guys were so wrong about Sticky'. We were still right all this time. It's just the jokes stop and some praise is issued.
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  10. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Then probably another player on the roster will take it in the jorts.

    :bow1:
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  11. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    If Sticky turns it around, I will acknowledge his accomplishments. But he's going to have to have 20 - 30 consecutive great games before I will even consider it.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
  12. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    fixed to fit my thought process
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  13. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    He has a bruise on his head from 5 years ago when he hit his ceiling HARD......
  14. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Once Stuckey and BoT are gone, I'm gonna try to start hating on dudes who play on the OPPOSING team and see how that works out for me.
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  15. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Didn't think of that, it will be even more fun to rag on Stuckey and BoT when they are playing for someone else. I might fly all the way to Detroit just to boo CV in person the first time he plays us as an opponent. Why don't we make it a PF.com pilgrimage? *makes mental note*
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    This presumes he is actually sideline, or heaven forbid, in the game.
  17. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Could you repost this, but break down Stuckey's PER when he is playing point, vs. playing shooting guard? I think you will see there is a about a 2 to 1 difference; yes, Stuckey is that much better at point, vs. at shooting guard.

    Again, to me, Stuckey should never have been given up on, not until the rest of the roster was corrected. Since he was not the problem, replacing him at point with Knight gave us exactly nothing.
  18. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Given that Stuckey is still on the roster with the contract he has says he was never given up on. At least by Pistons management and a few forum members anyway.
    Drafting Knight actually netted us Jennings, who is much more talented and better suited to play PG. For that, I am thankful.
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  19. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Well, I went and dug up the dirt myself, from 82games.com.

    Who has the best PER, when playing point, between Knight, Stuckey, and Jennings. In descending order, Stuckey 22.5, Jennings 16.0, Knight 12.4. So you want a good offensive player at point, choose Stuckey.

    Here is what Knight is good at - defense. Opposing point PER is 11.2. By this, apparently Knight wins his matchups at point guard.

    But Stuckey wins his too. Even though he gives up a sizzling 18.2 PER to the opposing point, hey, he still wins handily with his 22.5.

    Then you have Jennings. Who does not win his matchups against opposing points. His 16.0 is met with 16.7 PER from the opposing point. In other words, he loses the point guard matchup more often than he wins.

    So as advertised, Jennings is nowhere near the defender we had in Knight at point guard. But he is serious upgrade on the offensive end. Since we are starting a front line of Smith, Monroe, and Drummond, Jennings' poor D should not hurt us too much. Then again, if we simply used Stuckey as our point, we would have a serious upgrade on offense at point, and again, rely on that front line to clean up what Stuckey does worse, follow his guy thru a series of picks.

    Now, even though the head to head matchups show Jennings to be a better defender, 1 - its close really with Stuckey at 18.2 and Jennings at 16.7 (1.5 difference, lets say about roughly a 10% difference). But Stuckey is a huge guy, and when called upon to play interiour D, can do something positive. Can the slight in build Jennings say the same? Hmm, probably will edit this after looking up a couple more tidbits.

    Adding that Billups is at 21.4 /18.6, while Calderon was for us 19.3 / 19.2 (a better 20.4 / 16 for Toronto)

    And Bynum, the only one that badly gets outplayed among our point guards being discussed. 16.4 /18.1

    To show how much this PER differenciating means, I will add it for a few more players:

    JJ at small forward 15 / 13.2, but JJ at power forward 16.1 / 22.9


    Singler at shooting guard 10.1 / 13.5, worse at small forward 9.5 / 13.5

    Our hero, CV, at PF, 16.1 / 22.9
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
  20. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    At point guard in particular, H2H matchups don't matter as much as who makes their team better.

    Based on those numbers and that rationale, Jennings is a better defender at PG than Stuckey.

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