Rotations

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Lee356, Sep 10, 2005.

  1. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,396
    Likes Received:
    515
    Location:
    Flint
    a 12 man rotation

    First assumption, the starters only play 28 minutes each. They play the first 8 minutes of the 1st and 3rd quarters, the last 8 minutes of the game, and the last 4 minutes of the 2nd quarter. An intact unit getting 28 minutes a game together, making the plays crisper, the defense more in unison.

    This leaves 20 minutes at each position for the bench to cover. With 7 bench players to cover those positions. Simply start with 14 minutes per bench player.

    Flexibility. If matchups dictate it, a starter could play with the subs, and this could be up to 12 minutes worth for any one game for any one starter. Also, its real easy to swap minutes around here and there, letting a sub play with the starters while one of the starters plays with the subs. Or two such swaps. Or three. It really makes it very simple to play for matchups as needed.

    But you start with a rotation, something that makes sense and is seen a lot from game to game. Several standard units that get enough time together to optimize their play.

    Here are the 12 players, you know their minutes. CB, Rip, Tay, Ben, Sheed start. Subs are Arroyo, Acker, Evans, Delfino, Maxiell, Dyess, Darko.

    There are 12 minutes for the subs in the first half, and 8 minutes in the 2nd half. Start by splitting the subs into two squads, sort of. You don't have 10 subs, so all you can do is use two 3 to 4 man units and fill them in from there. Lets put Arroyo, Evans, and Dyess, Darko in one squad with Acker, Delfino, and Maxiell on the other.

    For the 8 minutes in the 2nd half, we play Arroyo, Evans, (Delfino 4 minutes and Maxiell 4 minutes), Dyess, Darko.

    For the 12 minutes of the 1st half, we start with Acker, Evans, Delfino, Maxiell, Dyess. This group plays 6 minutes.

    The next 6 minutes, Arroyo, Acker, Delfino, Maxiell, Darko.

    Lets see how close we got to our targets. Our target was 14 minutes per sub. We came out with Arroyo 14, Acker 12, Evans 14, Delfino 16, Maxiell 16, Dyess 14, Darko 14. Close enough.

    And for units, thats 28 for the starters, 12 minutes with Acker, Delfino, and Maxiell together, and 8 mintues with Arroyo, Evans, Dyess, and Darko together. Five units in total, with 28, 6, 6, 4, and 4 minutes. The two with just 4 minutes vary by just one player. The two with 6 minutes vary by 2 players. Should not be too hard for all these units to get real good.
  2. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    9,438
    Likes Received:
    409
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Los Lunas, NM
    If it wins fine. My concern is this much subing would put too big a burden on the starters to bail out. However if we stay with a more vet. 2sd unit like: CarArr, Dupree, Evans, Dyess, Davis. maybe they get a null or a positive.
  3. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    9,438
    Likes Received:
    409
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Los Lunas, NM
    Our best offensive unit is: C'Note, Rip, Sheed, Dyess...who is our next best Off. player that could run with this 4...Tay and BBen don't really qualify. I think Evans is next most reliable Off. I here Amir is very smooth. Delfino will drive. Davis, Dupree and CarArr not yet proven? JMax...I like what hear but I'm worried some of the bodies on the floor might be his teammates.
  4. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,396
    Likes Received:
    515
    Location:
    Flint
    Another in an endless line of rotations

    This one assumes a 13 man playoff roster, and is for the playoffs.

    The 13 would be Billups, Arroyo, Acker, Rip, Delfino, Tay, Maxiell, Evans, Ben, Dyess, Sheed, Darko, Davis.

    Davis, Acker, and Evans are defensive subs.

    Starting unit as usual, with 2nd unit of Arroyo, Delfino, Maxiell, Dyess, Darko.

    One competing rotation that could occur: Amir Johnson emerges into the rotation by the end of the year, moving Acker out. (Tay and Delfino assume the 3rd point guard duties.)

    Hunter fans could have him on the roster instead of Acker.

    And those who hope EC comes back? Well, if Hunter does not come back, Acker could be the odd man out. If Hunter and EC come back, then Acker and another player don't make the cut. If that should happen, I suppose it would have to be Davis. But note, I don't believe either Hunter or EC are coming back at this point.
  5. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,396
    Likes Received:
    515
    Location:
    Flint
    Per Blakely, we just get 12 guys on the playoff roster

    Blakely in no uncertain terms stated we just get 12 guys on the playoff roster. Gee, thats going to be tough.

    Billups, Arroyo, Acker, Rip, Delfino, Tay, Maxiell, Ben, Dyess, Sheed, Darko, Davis.

    I am leaving Mo Evans off after watching his ineffectiveness vs. Wade tonight.

    This is a very balance roster with 6 guards, including Tay, and 6 bigs, including Maxiell. Acker can handle the ball. More of an asset than Mo Evans, who completely lacks this ability. Both Acker and Mo Evans provide their own brand of defense, and both can shoot the outside shot. Both can go inside and both can rebound. With most the rest being equal, I'll take Ackers ability to create offense for his teamates.
  6. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,366
    Likes Received:
    786
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    There are other teams besides Miami

    Billups, Arroyo
    Rip, Delfino, Evans
    Tay
    Dyess, Sheed, Darko
    Davis, Wallace and Wallace.


    No surprises with my lineup. The kicker here is there's no room for hunter. And that's his entire role.

    Between acker and mo, I'd have to take the experience of mo. I doubt acker and aj will get any meaningful minutes during the season. Next year though...
  7. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,396
    Likes Received:
    515
    Location:
    Flint
    Slippy, thats only 11 players. Now you can add Maxiell, Acker, or Hunter (or EC)

    You got Sheed listed twice. We have lots of good choices for that 12th spot.

    But surprises could happen. We could find out Maxiell is a better defender than Davis, despite the height difference. And Amir Johnson could improve this very season and supplant Mo Evans. The following roster could happen.

    Billups, Arroyo, Acker, Rip, Delfino, Tay, Maxiell, Amir Johnson, Ben, Dyess, Sheed, Darko.
  8. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,366
    Likes Received:
    786
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    hey that's why I'm not GM! People in my Fantasy league watch out.
    We could use two Rasheed Wallaces. That would be 4 technicals.

    I still would keep hunter. The hunter question is interesting. I wonder if he will retire.

    I like how we are splitting hairs on the 12th spot. I am excited about the contributions from 1-12. If anything, I think acker might supplant Arroyo. I doubt AJ will be ready this year. On top of the maturity issue, he's learning a new position.
    The key to evans is that he can spell prince. 'Fino might be able to do that too but I like the defensive game that evans can bring.
  9. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,587
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Sterling Heights, MI
    you're nuts if you think a free agent that has been playing extremely well is going to be ousted by a rookie who's not going to get playing time and be on the healthy scratch list all year :)
  10. webz

    webz All-Star Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    3,341
    Likes Received:
    615
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    playoff roster

    hey guys.

    here is my idea of a playoff roster this season. (based on 12 players)

    PG- Billups, Arroyo
    SG- Hamilton, Delfino
    SF- Prince, Evans
    PF- Sheed, Dyess
    C- Ben, Darko
    Resting- Hunter, Davis

    I would have Hunter and Davis in there as guys 11 & 12, assuming Darko can continue his progress. Those 2 are in there for experience and spot minutes for certain situations (foul trouble, defence).
    Evans and Delfino's positions aren't fixed as I would use them as mix-n-match guys, they could play multiple positions depending on matchups, etc.

    Also I would really like to see Darko and J-Max step it up enough during the season so we could have J-Max on the roster instead of Davis. If those 2 can cut it, they will make us a lot more athletic.

    As for the other rooks, its a simple matter of experience prevailing, and I would rather have a proven performer who's ready to go at short notice.
  11. TBird

    TBird First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    0
    My rotation

    I would start the following:

    C-Glyniadakis
    PF-Maxiell
    SF-Johnson
    SG-Rodney White
    PG-Acker

    I would probably leave CB, 'Sheed, and Ben off of the playoff roster.
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,326
    Likes Received:
    2,688
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    asdfjkl;

    Who would you trade to get RW back... without destroying your core?
  13. rdang

    rdang First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    Comeon now...that might be a team even the Raptors can beat :laugh:
  14. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,404
    Likes Received:
    71
    Location:
    Windsor, Ontario
    webz

    I agree. If the playoffs started today or if nothing changes from now to playoff time, that's my roster too.

    As you mentioned maybe J-Max or Acker will step it up this season and force some changes come playoff time. That's a great problem to have if you ask me. That 12 man unit looks pretty good to me. Its deaper and more experienced than last years team, and should allow Prince more of a breather. But if our rookies playing well can force the issue, that will only make this team better.

    I can't see AJ making the playoff roster this season. He is by far the youngest and least experienced of our rookies and will probably see the least amount of playing time of anyone on the roster this season. That's not a knock on the kid, its just not enough PT to play himself on the playoff roster.

    AJ is our pet project this season. This is his year to watch and learn in practice and from the bench. He'll get his chance in the coming years.
  15. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,396
    Likes Received:
    515
    Location:
    Flint
    Rotation, written after the Dallas game

    So far this preseason, Dyess has looked not too impressive, although he does get his share of rebounds. Shooting only a fair percentage of two point shots is not real good offense. On the other hand, Maxiell looks more and more ready to step in and take minutes. He rebounds, defends, and can score both inside and out.

    Acker still looks pretty solid on defense, but maybe at this point in his career he needs to stick to guarding the slower points and shooting guards. Just not quite ready to guard speedy point guards. Needs more experience for that yet.

    So here is a nine man rotation, supported by Evans and Acker as spare guards, Dyess as a spare power forward, Dale Davis as a spare center, and Amir Johnson as a spare small forward.

    Starters as usual. Maxiell comes in early for Tay. The 2nd unit that comes out to start the 2nd quarter is Arroyo, Delfino, Tay, Maxiell, and Darko. With about 4 minutes left, Maxiell goes back to small forward as the rest of the starters come in and Tay sits.

    In the second half, pretty much the same, except the starters come back in quicker at the end of the game. Tay sits earlier in the 3rd, comes back while the 3rd is still going on, gets a brief rest mid-4th quarter and then finishes the game with the rest of the starters.

    Maxiell pretty much gets starters minutes here, while Evans and Dyess are cut right out.

    Look at a potential 3rd unit: Acker, Mo Evans, Amir Johnson, Dyess, and Dale Davis.

    Dupree still gets left out.

    A lot of talent in this roster.
  16. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    2,962
    Likes Received:
    34
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    Dude, did you just recommend that Dyess not be the number one reserve off the bench? Are you being serious? Sometimes you just have to sit back and think to yourself, does all this logic actually make sense. Anytime you are recommending that a rookie, although Maxiell is impressive, basically replaces an experienced Dyess, who is potentially a 6th man of the year candidate....your logic has some flaws, man. I'm starting to believe that I should be taking these rotations of yours with a grain of salt as you seem to waiver back in forth whenever the wind blows. If Arroyo explodes for a 13 assists game, can I then expect your next post to be an Arroyo starts with C-Note coming off the bench post? I find alot of your posts to be creative and inciteful, but every now and then you seem to drift into overanalysis and contradiction. I might be standing on an island alone with my accessment, but dude...sometimes you just leave me scratchin' my head. :confused:
  17. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,850
    Likes Received:
    781
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    Welcome to the LEE356(7) Zone

    It's actually kina cool to put Lee in a thread all by himself with these zany rotations where he can just go to town.

    I still don't see Maxiel as a SF by any stretch. Look at the Central division.
    Clev-SF= LeBron & ???
    Chi- SF=Nocioni & ???
    Indy-SF=Artest/Jackson/Granger
    Milw-SF= SImmons & ???

    Dude he's not quick enough, especially in this tempo where we no longer slow the game down to a halt like RC did when Corliss was played SF.

    Now assuming we get this ZONE BS right here's one Lee...
    PG-Chauncey
    SG-Rip
    SF-Sheed
    PF-J-Max
    C-Darko

    This would be an offense where Rip and J-Max are the primary scorers, with Sheed and Darko playing the highpost. Everyone on this unit can defend very well, and rebound very well at their position. They can all shoot from the outside as well as post up effectively.
  18. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    2,962
    Likes Received:
    34
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    Pretty cool lineup. That would be an interesting change of pace lineup to see on the floor. Maybe if we're lucky..we'll get a glimpse of it in tonight's game.
  19. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,850
    Likes Received:
    781
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    Now assuming we get this ZONE BS right here's one Lee...
    PG-Chauncey or maybe Tayshaun
    SG-Rip
    SF-Sheed
    PF-J-Max
    C-Darko


    Or put Tay in at the pt. Now this lineup is huge yet still pretty quick, you could put Tay on their SG and Rip on their PG.
  20. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,121
    Likes Received:
    1,976
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Actually, it's just putting the rotations in one thread. lee's welcome to roam and participate in any of the discussions, although we all know that rotation ideas are near and dear to his heart.

    What amazes me is that on the DNews we never had many people respond with their own rotations. Seems lee has a small army of "GMs in training" here. He's gotta like that. :)

Share This Page