Rotations

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Lee356, Sep 10, 2005.

  1. max

    max All-Star

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    Thats because its obvious to everyone but the head coach - kind of comical in a way. Also ironic in that he knew which buttons to push and string to pull when we were short handed. Perhaps thats why rookie coaches usually get bad teams to start.
     
  2. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    start: AI, Afflalo, Amir, JMAX, Sheed


    Bench: Stuckey, Rip, Tay, (JMAX or Sheed playing over with the 2nd unit.), Kwame.


    Dyess is the tenth man. Playing a very valuable role: depth at center. You got Stuck, Rip, and Tay in the 2nd unit. We don't need, for the most part, a jump shooting center whom seldom is seen anywhere near the basket on offense.


    Why this rotation:


    1)You use AI's offensive abilities, but surround him with your best defenders; leaving him more than free to go after steals.


    2)Tay is way too tired. Curry is spewing non-sense about how well Tay takes care of himself, but we fans know Tay - and Tay can't handle continuous major minutes. Never could, and he ain't getting younger. Tay coming off the bench will mean we can pick and choose the matchups we want for him, to our favor. And naturally, this will cut down on his minutes.


    3)You always have a point guard in the game. Call AI a point guard or not, he is one of two we have to choose from. Yes, we have Bynum as a spare point guard, but no way there is room for him to play much with so many other guards ahead of him.


    4)As mentioned above, Rip, Tay, and Stuck, thats a lot of fire power off the bench. Sometimes you are adding Sheed to this. And while this is not our very best set of defenders, these three do have a lot height, a lot of quickness between them. They can learn to defend well enough over time.


    5)Sheed. Again, it is important he arrive at the playoffs with lots left in the tank. Playing Kwame off the bench will reduce his minutes and accomplish this task. Why? You know Curry is also want to give Dyess minutes. No need usually to bring Sheed back into the game in the 2nd quarter.


    6)This rotation heavily involves JMAX, Amir, Kwame, and Afflalo, guys that Curry otherwise has trouble finding minutes for. All will end up with enough minutes to maximize their contribution in the playoffs. Stuckey is already on track. Reducing his minutes is just going to allow for that back to heal all the way.


    7)If we ever stall in the first quarter on offense, we always have lots of options of who to bring in early. Maybe we can exploit a mismatch at shooting guard for instance by playing Tay at shooting guard for a bit. Maybe AI has it going driving inside, but needs a breather - and Stuckey can sub for him and continue to drive in. Maybe we need Rip in to shoot out a zone.
     
  3. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Yet you seem to have no problem with Rasheed Wallace. I dare say we do need 'A' jump shooting center whom seldom is seen anywhere near the basket on offense, the problem is, we have 2 on the floor at the same time too much.
     
  4. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    OK been racking my brain, which doesn't take much or take too long - for I am a simple man, but here's what I got:
    If Bynum is in the rotation that means AA is out, which would be stupid. So here's a great way to keep the ship rolling in the right direction:
    AI - 36 MPG (18 at PG /18 at SG)
    Stuck - 30 MPG (all at PG)
    Rip - 30 MPG (All at SG/SF)

    Now if we use those three primarily as 3 guard rotation we're set.

    Tay plays 30-36 mpg, now AA can play 12-18 mpg minimum EVERYNIGHT, on nights the team is rolling with him on the floor, leave him out there longer.

    This can happen so long as MC makes AI the backup PG instead of Bynum and Tay, in order to win we really do need AA to play a steady and significant role on this team, he brings a certain toughness and gritty attitude that NONE of the others bring, not AI, not Max, nobody brings what AA brings and this team needs it badly.
     
  5. SmartIversonFan

    SmartIversonFan Second Round Draft Pick

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    I like Bynum. He's high-energy and really attacks the basket relentlessly.
    He's a lot like Stuck, to tell the truth. But if the Pistons need size
    and already have a bunch of guards, then there's really only one
    option- make a trade. Porblem is, when the guy never sees sunlight,
    it might be hard to make an attractive offer.
     
  6. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Why is Afflalo out? At the start of the 2nd quarter, someone has to play small forward. Rip is starting the 2nd quarter at shooting guard. Tay is resting. AI is resting. Stuckey is resting.

    If Stuckey or AI do play over into the 2nd or 4th quarter, it will be to replace Bynum, as has been going on ever since small ball started, and Bynum was announced as the backup point guard. This latest change does nothing at all to Afflalo's minutes, nor Bynums. (With the exception that Afflalo will play more at small forward, and less at shooting guard.)
     
  7. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    We'll find out tonight. I don't say this very often but.......... LEE I HOPE YOU'RE RIGHT!
     
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    This is shaping up to be a 40 minute game for Tay.
     
  9. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    AI is playing a lot of point. Stuckey is pretty much a rookie. Which one of these two plays the most point for us in a game most likely will not decide if we win or lose - unless a defensive matchup dictates that Stuckey plays more.

    What wins or loses for us at the moment is)

    Do we play Maxiell and Amir enough so that we have a power forward in the game enough so that the other team does not start waltzing thru our lane, knowing that nobody is there to catch up to the play. (Someone who can do something about it, and that excludes Tay)

    Do we play Afflalo enough so that our perimeter defense is solid.

    Giving players rest.

    Anyway, these rotations are just my way of thinking about the roster. Lack of a backup to Tay at small forward, who has height, is the biggest problem I see with the roster itself. (Which is somewhat separate from the rotations actually used by the coach.)

    So here is a rotation based on staying tall:

    Stuckey, Tay, Amir, JMAX, Sheed start.

    4 minutes to go in first, AI comes in for Stuckey, Afflalo comes in for Tay, and Kwame comes in for Sheed.

    This gives: AI, Afflalo, Amir, JMAX, Kwame

    To start the 2nd quarter, Tay comes back in for Amir, and Dyess comes in for JMAX.

    This gives: AI, Afflalo, Tay, Dyess, Kwame.

    Note, we are going too big here, with Dyess and Kwame paired up. But the other team has its subs in, so this is the best place to hide this.

    8 minutes to go in the 2nd quarter, Rip comes in for Afflalo, Amir comes in for Kwame.

    This gives: AI, Rip, Tay, Amir, Dyess.

    Last 4 minutes of 2nd quarter, Stuckey comes back in for AI, JMAX comes in for Amir, Afflalo comes in for Tay and Sheed comes in for Dyess.

    This gives Stuckey, Rip, Afflalo, JMAX, Sheed.

    Here, we go a bit small, but hey, we really don't have a choice without overplaying Tay.

    In the 2nd half, follow the same pattern, except who plays the last 4 minutes of the game varies depending on needs. I am going to guess that usually this will be:

    Stuckey, Rip, Tay, JMAX, Sheed

    Based on that, the minutes would be:

    AI 24 (all at point)

    Stuckey 24 (all at point)

    Rip 16 (all at shooting guard)

    Afflalo 24 (16 at shooting guard, 8 at small forward)

    Tay 36 (16 at shooting guard, 20 at small forward)

    Amir 32 (24 at small forward, 8 at power forward)

    JMAX 32 (all at power forward)

    Dyess 16 (8 as a center, paired with Amir, and 8 paired with Kwame - playing 2 centers.)

    Kwame 16 (8 as a center, paired with Amir, and 8 paired with Dyess - playing 2 centers.)

    Sheed 24 (all at center)

    Obviously, Rip could take some of Afflalo's minutes - but only if he can handle the defensive matchup. Rip can also take some of Tay's minutes at shooting guard, just to keep Tay's minutes down some. (Like he could start the 2nd half instead of Tay. But if playing Tay at shooting guard is giving us a great mismatch, we leave it alone.)
     
  10. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    A couple of comments:

    Kwame Brown gets the same number of minutes as Rip Hamilton?

    Amir Johnson gets 8 more minutes than Allen Iverson?

    The team's two biggest stars (Rip, AI) would be the most unhappy players. Could a team have a positive chemistry with its top two players unhappy?

    Amir commits a foul every 5 minutes. Every game, he would foul out before ever reaching his 32 minutes.
     
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Which is the method behind the madness. It is a stealth 32 minutes.
     
  12. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    This is pure Curry-like genius....brilliant. :burgereater:
     
  13. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think the plan is for Amir to switch jerseys with the other players and perhaps to don a mask like Rip to hide his identity.
     
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    If I were the coach, I'd start Amir and just leave him out there until he fouls out. That way, he can determine his own playing time. In the 2nd quarter, Maxiell can come in and do the same thing.
     
  15. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    You are not getting my point at all.

    I post these rotations to think about the roster.

    Try to follow my reasoning, and comment on that. Maybe try to improve it.

    To think that this rotation, one of about a hundred I will post this season, has that much meaning, well, you are just wasting your brain power.

    Again, this rotation has one goal, to go bigger, using Prince as a mismatch at shooting guard. I never said we should go to this even. Its just something we could use, no more. Among, like I say, hundreds of rotations that could be used.

    If you care to use your brain a bit, tell me how you can get something like this, but with some of your concerns answered.

    Now, to answer some of your questions. Just because I got some time to kill.

    1) So what about AI playing less. Latest news is we are trading him. For whatever. Is the news valid. It does not matter. It may be. And if it is, what harm in reducing his minutes. Further, it really does not matter what AI thinks. Lets say this rotation is what will win against a particular team in the playoffs. So we have a choice, use Tay at shooting guard, limiting AI's minutes, and thus winning the series, or playing AI too much, foregoing the advantage we would have had, and losing the series. Would you choose to lose the series just to appease AI. Gee, it seems AI wants to win too.

    2) I see some noise about Amir fouling out. So someone else plays more minutes. As you probably notice, I got Rip at 16 minutes. If Amir is in foul trouble, Afflalo plays more at small forward, Rip more at shooting guard. These numbers are just targets, nothing sacred about them.

    3) On Rip's minutes. First, guess what, he has just been demoted to the bench. He is not going to get the kind of minutes he was getting. I said in my post, Rip could play some of Tay's and some of Afflalos minutes. Again, nothing sacred about the minutes. As for Rip being happy, I again feel Rip would be happier winning vs. losing. If this rotation were to fit, it should be used vs. letting someone whoop us in a series.
     
  16. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Lee:

    It seems like the Pistons are loaded at SG right now. Why would you want to move Tay to SG to make the overcrowding worse? Are you trying to over-compensate for Small Ball by going Large Ball?

    Do you ever recall Tay ever playing the #2 before? I'm not arguing whether it's a good idea or not. Just wondered if Detroit has ever tried this in recent years. I remember the forum calling for a large lineup last year (there was even a nickname for it???).
     
  17. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Please take time to read what I wrote. Already covered as far as when this rotation might be appropriate.

    Yes, Tay has played shooting guard. Not recently. Tay is still occasionally called upon to guard a shooting guard, but not as often in his first couple of years with us. How about Orlando. They start Bogans at shooting guard. I'd take that matchup. Tay will score on Bogans, but no way Bogans will get many shots, regardless of who is guarding him, as he is 5th on their scoring list amongst the starters. Meanwhile, you got JMAX and Amir guarding Lewis and Turk, while Sheed is gaurding the big guy. We also should make lots of hay with the Stuckey / Nelson matchup.

    In contrast, Bogans is a good defender, and a guy like Rip is about perfect for him to guard. Why not play AI less in that series, since Stuckey should be able to get to the basket at will vs. Orlando. And if they stop Stuck, Prince takes Bogans to the woodshed.
     
  18. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    You're posting 100 rotations this season.... :sherlock:

    yet BillLaimbeer is the one wasting brain power. :doh:


    Gotcha. :good:
     
  19. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Actually, Lee is correct on this one. For each of Lee's 1,000,000 different rotations, I record it, replay it 5-6 times using frame-by-frame technology, and then analyze each frame. Is it a lot of work? Yes. But, can I see things that no one else is seeing? You betcha.
     
  20. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Wow, I did not know I had gotten to a million. If you have them all saved, could you send me the file?

    And Rip just got 22 minutes tonight. Stuckey 40. Wow, how things can change. Can anyone imagine Stuckey getting about double the minutes Rip got last year under Flip?
     

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