Rotations

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Lee356, Sep 10, 2005.

  1. pass99

    pass99 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Oh, come-on...keep working at it!
  2. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Ranking our players:

    By win percentage. This is the number of times we gain on the other team vs. the number of times a player comes into a game.

    Sheed 65%

    Afflalo 58%

    Kwame 57%

    Stuckey 56%

    Amir 54%

    AI 51%

    Tay 48%

    Rip 43%

    JMAX 39%

    Dyess 39%

    Based on this, our starters could be:

    Stuckey, Afflalo, Amir, Sheed, Kwame

    This leaves for a 2nd unit:

    AI, Rip, Tay, JMAX, Dyess

    One of the worst things about pairing up Dyess and Sheed, or Dyess and Kwame, or Sheed and Kwame, is that it leaves nobody to get to plays around the basket, as well as leaving no big really capable of getting back on transition D. Since Amir would be in this starting unit, we can have him do a lot of both these things. It just might work.

    (And again, for anyone who does not read what I write much - Tay can get to plays, and sure he can get back on transition D - but he is too slight of build to actually do anything once he catches up to a play if the opposing player has any size at all. And no, Amir is not as thin as Tay. There is about a 30 pound weight difference between the two, regardless of any old data you have seen from when they were drafted.)
  3. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Now here is a rotation that would win. Which of course means Curry would never use it, as he seems to be allergic to using anything that actually works. Anyone want to go research how often it has worked to finish with Sheed / Dyess paired up in close games?


    Start AI, Afflalo, Tay, Amir, Sheed. Play this unit all of the first and 3rd quarters, and the last 6 minutes of the game, with one main exception - Rip comes in for Tay for the last 6 minutes of the 1st and 3rd quarters.


    I'll list the unit that plays the last 6 minutes of the 1st and 3rd quarters:


    AI, Rip, Afflalo, Amir, Sheed


    2nd unit: We open the 2nd and 4th quarters with:


    Stuckey, Rip, Tay, JMAX, Kwame


    Dyess does play, with a target of him getting 12 minutes per game. This is achieved by him taking some of Kwame's minutes in the 2nd quarter, occasionally playing the last few minutes of the 1st and 3rd quarters, and occasionally playing the opening of the 4th quarter. And sometimes finishing games, instead of Sheed.


    If Amir gets into foul trouble, JMAX takes his minutes. As long as Amir can average 24 minutes per game, we will be fine at power forward.


    For minutes:


    AI 30
    Afflalo 30
    Tay 36
    Amir 30
    Sheed 24
    Stuckey 18
    Rip 30
    JMAX 18
    Kwame 12
    Dyess 12
  4. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Dyess shows the most hunger of any of our players right now. He is the best rebounder and seems to actually respect his teammates and play the right way. He doesn't need to be playing 40+ minutes, but he certainly has earned more than 12.
  5. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    So post your own rotation. I would love to see you contribute your thoughts. Then I can find one flaw and comedown hard on you for it. But seriously, why don't you make any positive comments on anything in my post here. Your posting what you posted was way expected.

    Without bothering to defend my position, I will just ask you this- which would you choose - run Dyess into the ground the rest of the season - or my plan of using him sparingly and saving all that energy for the real fight - the playoffs.
  6. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Good points. I have to run right now, but I do agree with many of your thoughts.
    • I don't like to see anyone getting 40+ minutes per game.
    • I'd like to see Kwame Brown get some burn.
    • Afflalo and Amir need consistent minutes. I'd say more like 20 minutes than the 30 that you suggested.
    • Stuckey is getting worn down, so his minutes should be cut. He still needs 20-25 per game, though.
    • More later...
  7. pass99

    pass99 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Wow, an experienced thought process going on here, with still very little justification about said comments.
    Big disappointment out-of me, I expect the usual short, pity comments. It's all much safer that way.
  8. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    A couple of comprehensible sentences. Nice work. Keep it up.
  9. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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  10. pass99

    pass99 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Your word is better.
  11. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    PG: Tay
    SG: Afflalo
    SF: Rip
    PF: Herrmann
    C: Sheed

    The 3-point shooting lineup.

    (back to reality).
  12. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Your post was pithiful. :pound:


    Have a nice day.


    :hoops:
  13. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Let's not turn this into a pithing contest.
  14. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Mind your own pithiness.
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Mutiny brewing? Rip not liking the rotations.

    Sheed and Tay seem like they have given up on MC. Looks like Rip is right behind them.
  16. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Here's a mathematical way to approach the rotation issue. I wondered how much each player is costing us per minute they play. To find this out, I mutiplied MPG with games played for each player to see how many minutes total they played for us this season. Then I divided their salary by that number, which gave me how much we're paying each player for each minute they're on the court.

    If the end result is really high, it means we're not getting our money's worth out of that player. In these cost conscious times, and since this season is lost anyways, I thought why not try a lineup to get our money's worth out of those players? So I sorted the roster on cost per minute. The resulting table was this:

    Player Cost per minute
    Walter Sharpe $ 64,074.49
    Allen Iverson $ 11,163.23
    Kwame Brown $ 8,445.95
    Rasheed Wallace $ 8,341.32
    Walter Herrmann $ 7,716.05
    Richard Hamilton $ 7,101.34
    Amir Johnson $ 4,850.09
    Tayshaun Prince $ 4,729.19
    Will Bynum $ 2,757.82
    Jason Maxiell $ 2,317.99
    Arron Afflalo $ 1,251.78
    Rodney Stuckey $ 1,046.72
    Antonio McDyess $ 649.93

    Now, obviously inserting Sharpe and Hermann into the starting lineup doesn't make too much sense, and McDyess' numbers are skewed because of the trade earlier in the season. Also, you wouldn't play Bynum ahead of Stuckey either. However, once you account for those irregularities you have the starting lineup of:

    AI
    Rip
    Amir
    Sheed
    Kwame

    and the second unit of:

    Stuckey
    Afflalo
    Prince
    Maxiell
    McDyess


    Hmm, not only is it something new to try, but it also makes sense financially.

    I also like the toughness of our starting front line and the versatility of the bench. Sheed & McDyess are not on the court together either. There are two rebounders so Sheed can chug 3 pointers. We have a slasher (AI & Stuckey) in each unit. With his recent pouting, Prince deserves to be benched anyways. Rip's happy.

    This is why I love math. :nerd:
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I like the concept of playing each guy enough so that their per minute costs are all the same.
  18. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Here is a rotation we could be playing at the moment, until AI returns:

    Stuckey, Rip, Tay, JMAX, Sheed start.

    Amir comes in for Tay early.

    So we end the last 5 minutes of the 1st and 3rd quarters with:

    Stuckey, Rip, Amir, JMAX, Sheed. (Dyess comes in for Sheed for the last few minutes of each of these quarters.

    To start the 2nd and 4th quarter:

    Bynum, Afflalo, Prince, Amir, Dyess.

    After 4 minutes, Kwame comes in for Dyess (Dyess plays a total of 14 minutes per game.)

    In the 2nd quarter, this unit finishes the quarter:

    Stuckey, Afflalo, Tay, JMAX, Kwame.

    In the 4th quarter, the guys who finish the game:

    Stuckey, Rip, Tay, JMAX, Sheed.
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    In the Denver game, MC used 14 different combinations in 16 total stints (3 stints had the same combo; start of 1st Q, start of 3rd Q, and end of 4th Q).

    Against Boston, 13 different combos.

    Against Orlando, 12 different combos.


    There is really no way to diagram MC's madness. He's a permutation generating machine. Once he realized that Herrmann can play every position except PG, that opened up new worlds for him.
  20. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    To be honest; I am not one of Herman's biggest fans but he does spread the floor when he is out there. He has range out to the sideline and is not averse to putting it on the floor and dishing off to a teammate. The other thing I like about him is that the ball is not usually in his hands very long. He is always ready to shoot when he is off the ball and if he doesn't have the shot when passed to him he either puts it on the floor or he passes it to keep it moving.

    I would like to see Aaron get more PT but his jumpshot is not respected right now so the defense collapses too much. Until he can get more consistent (which I think he needs more playing time to do) I am not all that upset with Walter giving Tay a breather a few minutes per game.

    When they are both on the floor I am not real happy. :doh:

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