Rotations

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Lee356, Aug 7, 2009.

  1. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    I don't understand that play either. It seems to me that everything you do on the offensive end should be with the intention of causing a mismatch or a breakdown of the defense to give you an opening.

    This does nothing but waste clock.

    The other one I have seen is where the guards pass it around at the top of the key and not even look into the post or at the cutters. One guard passes in front of the other and then gets the pass no closer to the basket and not anymore open then the guard that gave it to him.

    Pass and cut, screen and roll, drive and dish; these are the aggressive plays I want to see.
  2. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Of note, we did see JJ vary this the last game or so, where he would swing the ball around with no hesitation to help reverse the ball. At least that is doing something. But what should be happening, at least some of the time, is that the play should be for JJ to shoot the darn ball.

    Note he did shoot a shorter jumper, where even though he got tagged on the arm, he still made the shot. He has got to keep the other team honest by shooting some shots from the 3 line, even if token pressure is there.
  3. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Coach should know himself by now. He can't remember, during the heat of the battle, to get guys in the game he thinks deserve minutes. And he can't remember to rest players who need rest.

    Solution: Idiot proof his rotation. Start guys who do not demand high minutes. Exception is Stuckey perhaps, as how can you ignore how well Stuckey does in first quarters.

    However, if you only play Bynum at point, and only play Stuckey at point, there should never be a game again where Stuckey plays too many minutes - once Bynum is over that ankle sprain.

    Start: Stuckey, Rip, Daye, JJ, Wilcox.

    Bench: Bynum, Gordon, Tay, JMAX, Ben Wallace

    And you still have to find 20 minutes a game for CV, who will cut into everyone's minutes on the front line.

    No way you have to worry about Rip getting overplayed, since Gordon will be demanding so many minutes.

    This all leaves out Kwame. (You know, the guy who unexplainably loses the ball when passed into him near the basket, who looks good one moment making a move to the basket, but then looks bad as he misses both of the resulting free throws.) I am not saying Kwame should never play - but it appears that he plays the same whether getting regular minutes or just playing sporadically. In other words, his mind goes awal on a regular basis, regardless of his role.

    The last two guys on the roster are Chucky and Summers. Yes, Summers should be playing some, and I do hope time will be found to get him into some games yet. However, gee, things are getting pretty crowded in this rotation as it is. Perhaps we have to sacrifice some of Daye's and JJ's development time to give some to Summers. I am thinking Summers could end up being quite valuable if given a chance to play.
  4. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    I like this lineup. It should be tried. Very active and the shuffle from the bench makes it tough on teams to stay with the Pistons.

    It seems to me that the best route to the playoffs is to never let anyone catch you. Relentless pressure and no half court game for this crew.

    Q needs to fine-tune the 3-2 zone to keep up things unbalanced on the defensive side...activity, quickness and those long arms.
  5. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Lee, what has this coach done to lose your confidence in him already?

    Personally, I like how Coach Kuester has this team playing.
  6. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Upon Tay's arrival the lineup I would really like to see is:
    Starters: Bynum / Stuckey / Tay / JJ / Ben
    Bench: Gordon / Charlie V / Max / Wilcox

    3 Guard rotation of Bynum (30mins), Stuckey (30mins) and Gordon (30mins), This leaves about 6mins to see Daye play some 2-Guard.

    JJ Plays equal minutes at Small and Power Forward, he's the starting PF and backup SF with Daye for a few minutes.

    The minutes at Center are divided up among Ben, Weezy, Kwame and Max depending upon matchups.

    Of course when Rip returns throw all of this out the window.
  7. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    I never had any confidence in him to begin with. Why should I? He is a rookie that countless GM's have passed up for a head coaching job.

    From there, it just got worse when he left Rip in for the end of garbage time. It got way worse when he decided (in the heat of battle) to play Tay an average of 38 minutes, at the start of the season, in a 3 game in 4 night stretch. It got even worse when he indicated he had no idea what he just had done.

    If he gets a clue, I will be the first to let you know. Stay tuned.
  8. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Which coach do you think has been the best at not over-playing guys?
  9. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Larry Brown, in his first year, when he cared.
  10. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    In 2004, the minute per game averages were:

    Ben: 37.7
    Rip: 35.5
    Billups: 35.4
    Tay: 32.9

    You're okay with those numbers?
  11. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Yes. Ben Was about 28 back then, and paced himself quite a bit during the game, choosing when to run down the court. Otherwise, note that even our lead scorer, Rip, did not get 36 minutes per game. Go check Flip's first year for contrast.
  12. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    Looking at the current minutes on this squad and the number of injuries we have had; I think Q has done a good job. Tay is at 38 mins with only 3 games played while Stuck is at about 38 through 20 games. Other then that the mins are down. Ben is at 30 but I think Q is still trying to figure out which players can do what. Right now it is hard to take Ben out with the way he has been playing.

    A couple more minutes a game for Wilcox could bring Ben's mins in line. A few more minutes for Daye could bring Stuck's mins down as well or a few from Summers.

    It is still early in the season and we still have not had our entire roster healthy for a full game. We need to see what this team looks like when Rip and Tay get back.

    Things are going to change and I just hope they change for the better.

    I would like to see Tay move back into the starting line up when he is ready. Let Daye back him up.

    Move JJ to the 4 as the starter. Let CV back him up.

    Big Ben is going to start. He sets the tone for us to start the games. Let Kwame and Wilcox help keep his minutes manageable.

    Stuck and Rip are the other two starters. Let Bynum back up Stuck primarily and Gordon back up Rip. I am not a big WB supporter so I would like to see his minutes reduced. Let Gordon run the point some to accomplish this.
  13. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Bynum, Gordon, Daye, Villenueva, Kwame....not a bad 2nd unit....probably in the top half of the league.
  14. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    And the first unit ain't too shabby either as long as Tay and Rip come back to form. this will alleviate some of the scoring load from Stuck so he can concentrate on distributing the ball or breaking down the defense. The defense won't be able to cheat on him with Rip and Tay on the perimeter.

    I can't wait til they are back to full strength. It's almost like this is the pre-season and the real season hasn't started yet.
  15. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    that is my feeling exactly....
  16. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    So Rip was back against the GSW's, and it's pretty clear that Q is going to play our top dollar players, but that doesn't mean there is no room for JJ and Daye. At full strength I imagine that our starting lineup looks like this:

    Stuckey, Rip, Tay, Max, Ben.
    Not bad, not bad at all, although I prefer Rodney playing off the ball at his natural 2-Guard position as much as possible, because he really struggles with running the offense.

    That means our second unit could look like this:

    Bynum, Gordon, Daye,JJ, CV
    Notice (Especially Lee) no Kwame, Wilcox or Atkins. This rotation would move CharlieV to the Center position, which he is totally capable of under certain conditions, (1)The other center isn't Dwight Howard, Shaq, Lopez, etc etc (2) you flank him with length that can hit the glass.

    This is a solid rotation if Stuckey and Bynum can figure out how to be as good at the PG position as Chucky Atkins is, now is that asking for much?

    Our closing lineup will more often than not look like this:
    Stuck, Bengo, Rip, BEN, CV - Tay will rotate Bengo, CV, or Ben out of that lineup depending on what the situation is.
  17. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Stuckey, Rip, Tay, Jerebko, Ben
    The organization will have to create two lookout points: first, the collective showing of what Rip/Tay will do toward consistent rotations and you can bet that the offense will slow down. I consider this a bad sign. Q will probably have some internal issues when those two come back. RIP knows (as probably does Tay) that he is on the trade block.

    Second, Jerebko will have to learn the 4 position. If he continues with that nice hook shot (and perhaps a nice McHale step back move), then he will begin to expand his game and this gives JD more options on who to move. CV will become a broad option, very similar to what Stuckey has become: an offensive talent that brings nice options for positional movements. They are what I call floating talents; who can't be ignored, because they will score consistently in the high teens and are good movers between positions. Unfortunately, you can't compose a whole team of them.
  18. HarryFWong

    HarryFWong First Round Draft Pick

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    $100M 2nd unit lol.
  19. HarryFWong

    HarryFWong First Round Draft Pick

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    Ok, let's say Rip and Tay come back at full strength. This gives us

    4 guards who NEED minutes
    3 sf's in Prince, JJ, Daye (I guess Daye will sit)
    A raggedy frontcourt only temporarily fogotten due to the incredible year by ben wallace. if wallace gets injured or retired, the frontcourt is toast. Charlie can score, maxiell has looked like a capable reserve. Kwame and Wilcox are well, you already know.
    In reality, with all the injuries going on, perhaps that backcourt logjam will never fully materialize. And maybe ben will go all season as superben and make us forget about how thin our frontcourt is.... If he keeps playing like this maybe we can float by til the end of the season without a trade... I really hope there is a way to trade tayshaun or rip this season though because it just really makes sense for the future. [Paying top $ for vets who play a position where you already have developing talent, when there are obvious holes up front makes no sense]
  20. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    In the Warrior game, Kuester got Daye in there for extended minutes in the 2nd half. Good job. This was a tight game, but in the heat of battle, Kuester in this case got it right.

    In the first half, Chucky was basically worthless, as he barely rested Stuckey (all three of Chucky, Stuckey, and Rip were in together much of the first half). But in the 2nd half, Atkins and Daye played for quite a stretch where Rip and Stuckey were resting on the bench, making both Daye and Chucky's appearance there really mean something. That stretch right there probably won this game. Both Stuckey and Rip were able to come in fresh to finish the game.

    Also, coach made the fine decision not to play Kwame, who fit not at all in the first half. With the extensive 3 guard (small ball) setups he was using, someone had to sit. Instead of playing Kwame to no purpose, he played JJ as a power forward. Darn good choice there.

    So, from this game at least, I draw hope.

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