Sacramento Jan 18th, 8:00 PM

Discussion in 'January 2008' started by Dlev59, Jan 16, 2008.

  1. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,175
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Washington DC area
    Crappy loss tonight. CB had maybe his best game of the year: 28 points, 10 assists, 7 boards, no turnovers, 11-11 from the FT line on lots of aggressive drives. Rip had a great game shooting but turned it over way too much, Dice crashed the boards and hit shots but bricked 4 FTs, JMax sparked a big run in the 3rd quarter but also bricked his FTs, and Sheed was terrible all night long. Bench was mostly terrible, nothing from Stuckey or Hayes.
  2. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    4,270
    Likes Received:
    638
    Location:
    Houston, Texas
    no................
  3. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,527
    Likes Received:
    131
    Location:
    tartu
    I think, such losses are needed, they are cure for complacency.
  4. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    12,566
    Likes Received:
    1,658
    Location:
    Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    Well the Pistons came back and took the lead in the third based on some inspired defense by Max and some timely buckets by CB, but our lack of production from the rest of the bench and the 11 missed FT spell doom for the Pistons as they were swept by the restructured Kings. Their big guns all coming back from injury this week did what most us predicted took out our less than skilled bench in the second qtr and the all important 4th qtr. This is the same team that got blown out by Raptors two days ago...the same team we blew out the night prior to that!

    How does this stat grab you Kings bench 60, Pistons bench 5!! (all by JMAX) as Hayes, Stuckey and Afllolo were a combined 0-10 from the field. What happen to our bench...they must have lost their confidence sitting on the bench during last weeks road trip I guess:confused:.

    Let's not put it all on the bench though . Sheed 3-12 shooting, 1-6 from beyond the arc. Sheed, Dice and Max 1-11 from the FT line. Rip 5 turnovers:frusty:

    Another great Billups game wasted. 28 pts, 10 assists, 7 board and no turnovers.
  5. alexa032

    alexa032 Team Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2007
    Messages:
    783
    Likes Received:
    257
    Our starting backcourt had a terrfic game; Chauncey especially. Rip could've turned it over less, though. Our frontcourt - not so much. Dice had some great hustle; Max as well, but neither they nor Sheed could score for us. We got very little help on offense from our frontcourt. Pistons also missed a lot of ft's.

    Our bench really struggled, producing only 5 points. Max was the lone bright spot there. Stuckey seems out of it. He got burned on D quite a bit - and he needs to be more aggressive on offense. I guess the hand's still bothering him. Flip might wanna think about upping the tempo with him in there. He'll do better, and it'd be a good change of pace for us.
    Hayes needs to take better shots; he's starting to force things again. Herrmann was decent, but he didn't really stand out; neither did Afflalo.
  6. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,406
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Michigan's Thumb
    The bench is coming off a a string of games where they haven't gotten much run and are trying to adjust. They are pressing to do well instead of just playing. I think part of the problem is you bring in Stuck and Max but leave Dice, Rip and Tay in the game after already having a lot of minutes on them. They are slowing them down. Stuck, Max and even AA want and need to turn up the tempo when they are playing. We need to reduce the length of our runs so that we can turn up the tempo when Stuck and Max come in.
  7. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,436
    Likes Received:
    558
    Location:
    Flint
    Another coaching loss. Sacramento steadily shuttled in fresh players the whole game. We countered with a 6 man rotation.</p>


    <p>Worse, three of our starters played near or over 40 minutes, in the first of a back to back. So much for planning to leave anything for tomorro night. And yes, Dyess was way overplayed too, for his age and condition of his knees.</p>


    <p>What happened to the promise of Stuckey playing major minutes, win or lose? The announcers proudly, I should say dutifully, announced the 8 man rotation. What a joke to put on us fans.</p>


    <p>Rip sat out about a minute or so in the first half before coming back in, and utterly predictably finishing the half. Virtually no rest. The 8 man rotation thing failed to work.</p>


    <p>Anyone think Afflalo got minutes. Technically he did. Two minutes can be referred to in the plural. This is a joke.</p>


    <p>Hayes continues to do nothing at all out there. But since he is someone who Flip can play instead of Amir, he will not come out of the rotation. His minutes were given to him, and they are gold.</p>


    <p>Herrmann hustles, but is way too slow. He simply does not get to plays to affect them.</p>


    <p>Maxiell had a bad night at the line, but provided a great burst of energy in the 3rd quarter to get us back into the game. But then the coach sat him most of the 4th quarter, going with a couple of tired 33 year olds instead.</p>


    <p>At least Saunders did do a couple of things different. He brought in a guy who should be starting, Maxiell, into the game when it was very apparent we needed Maxiell and his stellar defense. He also played Herrmann and later Hayes some at power forward. If he had not, Dyess would be up around 40 minutes for this game too, and that would be truly obscene on a front end of a back to back. Now, neither of these guys gives us a lick of rebounding or shotblocking as power forwards, so it will never work, but it would be stupider yet to play Dyess even more minutes. So I applaud the coach for at least not being totally ignorant as far as his rotation tonight. Close, but not totally.</p>


    <p>Back to the lie that was told us fans. Flip cheerfully announcers he cut Afflalo, a fine young player, out of the rotation. With the absurdly lame excuse that he was going to increase Stuckey's minutes. Afflalo still barely played, but Stuckey was cut to about 10 minutes. Lies. Now, who out there actually believed any of it. I certainly hope that more and more fans will understand that truth and Saunders are strangers. He wants his way, and thats all there is to it. The rest is just excuses. Lame as heck excuses.</p>


    <p>Billups and Rip had fine shooting nights. But I sure hope they don't think they will ever win anything of importance on their own.</p>


    <p>Foul trouble. Hard to notice it. But we had enough fouls on our bigs in the first half to where they were choosing to let people waltz in unchallenged. This paranoia of Flip's not to ever have to play Amir is truly hurting our defense. And believe me, other teams smell our fear and are crashing inside all they can. Now, Sacramento did not play a particulary smart game. They could have pretty much slaughtered us if they had went inside a bit more even than they did. Don't fool yourselves. With this coach of ours, Sacramento would beat us in a 7 game series.</p>


    <p>Tay played aggressively to start the game and then vanished.</p>


    <p>Dyess had a good shooting game, got some rebounds. Sure would be nice though if he could cover the inside. He is a good sub, a poor starter.</p>


    <p>Oh well, let the inevitable flood of excuses start on Flip's behalf. But it won't help the team any. Fans who want to see the Pistons win this year, and we still can, should start hollering for two things. One, fire Flip. Two, play the youth.</p>
  8. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,409
    Likes Received:
    401
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my bunker in the Carribbean
    Near 0 production from the Bench and Sheed kind of did us in here. Maxiel was the only bench guy who scored with 5 points. I don't think we have gotten that low of production since LB's last year.

    I would stick with the plan though. Stucky has not looked great and Afflalo not much better but thats what it is like sometimes with player developement. I think we sometimes get the idea that these young guys are always going to do magical things when they get the chance. But in reality Its a slow and sometimes painfull process. Ask Denver fans about Mello's rookie year.

    Stick with the plan Flip. We keep saying that its ok to take a few losses for the good of the team. Well, here you go.

    At least the team will be extra motivated for the Bulls.
  9. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    15,253
    Likes Received:
    3,287
    Location:
    Michigan
    Stuckey played poorly on both ends of the floor. He got 10 minutes, but certainly didn't deserve any more tonight. He was 0-for-4 shooting, got burned several times on defense, and was -17 while on the court. I like Stuckey, but he's got a long ways to go.

    Hamilton and Billups played great tonight. These guys should both be All-Stars. When they are this hot, unless you are trying to lose, it would be stupider to not ride them. Tomorrow, you get more minutes to both Stuckey and Afflalo.
  10. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,436
    Likes Received:
    558
    Location:
    Flint
    Max, you did notice right. The plan was not stuck to tonight. Stuckey only played 10 minutes. Hayes can't play, and he only played 10 minutes. The only part of the plan stuck to at all was Maxiell getting minutes. Even he was insulted I am sure by his coach ignoring a fine game by him and going with the old folks at the end of the game.
  11. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,409
    Likes Received:
    401
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my bunker in the Carribbean
    12 mins of in-game play for Stucky and Afflalo is lot more than anyone else has gotten around here for a while. True its down from what it has been and lower than one would like but also Sacramento's bench is not a bench. Artest, Bibby and Martin is a joke comming off the bench. That kind of talent is hard to match up with. I know they are just trying to bring them along slowly but it was a dagger tonight for us.

    Yes Maxiel has come to the point where I would not consider him a player in development anymore. He will get better of course but you don't need to hold his hand anymore.
  12. adonis

    adonis First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    315
    Likes Received:
    0
    What Rookie plan are you talking about? The only Rookie who played was Stuckey who played 10 minutes. Rip and CB played over 40 minutes each. Does this look like Rookie development? It was obvious that Flip was chasing the win and did not care about any development of any Rookie.
  13. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    12,566
    Likes Received:
    1,658
    Location:
    Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    Alfllolo took two bad shots in his 2+ mins and was yanked. He needs more PT to be affective. I think driving to the hoop his next time out and getting his confidence back is what is needed. Hopefully with Billups playing 40 tonight and Rip almost 43, AA gets more burn tomorrow.

    Stuckey's indecisiveness is turning him into another Arroyo as he is dribbling it to much and thinking to long about who to pass it to. Or he is picking up the dribble to fast and then is forced to make a bad pass. No TO's in his 10 minutes so one positive there.

    Two things learned in the past week, we got beat by a team with a scorer off the bench in J Terry and tonight, lil Kmart and Bibby. I think it is time to move one of our scorers to the bench..Dice or [strike]Tyra[/strike], I mean Tay so that we can compete for 48 mins and not 38.

    Only the third time this season the Pistons have lost a game when leading at the end of 3. (26-3 now)
  14. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,436
    Likes Received:
    558
    Location:
    Flint
    The announced plan was 20 to 25 minutes. For Stuckey. Half is not meeting a goal very well. Playing Stuckey 10 minutes is no reason to hold Afflalo to 2 minutes. I consider this all a joke, perpetrated on us fans.

    Now, this was all announced with loud trumpets, and not delivered on. It was a bad idea anyway.

    Here is a much better plan: Have Stuckey just learn to play point guard, and have Afflalo just learn to be a shooting guard. Pair them up together, and make sure Rip and Billups get good long rests (preferrably the whole 2nd quarter) in the 2nd quarter.
  15. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,587
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Sterling Heights, MI
    blame the loss on my friend's mom - she's gone to 2 games this year and both were losses. the crowd was there tonight - actually showed up, it was mostly a sellout, and maintained excitement throughout the game.

    unfortunately, the pistons had other plans. we lost this game because we didn't play defense, and the explanation is no simpler than that. complacency and laziness have set in - the pistons could have won this game if they played hard the entire 48 and they know it. but the problem is, they DO know that, and slacked off thinking they could turn it on. they're no longer wanting to kill teams like they did during the big win streak. if this continues, dumars has to step in.

    sure stuckey's defense was bad, but it wasn't a matter of individual skill, it was a matter of not knowing how to defend the pick-and-roll with dyess. they were not on the same page, but it's correctable. but still, stuckey needs to be more selfish - he's there to be a game-changer, not a playbook-follower. hopefully saunders isn't trying to get him to play like the rest of the starters, because that's not going to fly.
  16. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    9,689
    Likes Received:
    517
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Los Lunas, NM
    With RonRon blowing kisses we had no chance.
    Let's find some guys we can pick on. Like SanAntone.
  17. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,212
    Likes Received:
    195
    We scored 16 points in the 4th against Sacramento. The offense is still vulnerable under the coaching staff and this is a more important issue and longer term issue than the loss.

    Sheed is not the right guy to be on Artest outside at the end of the game. Maxiel should have been in from about the 6 minute mark for defense for Dyss.

    This coaching staff is usually stymied when things don't go well--very slow to react. Again, a long term concern not just for this game.

    The starters played way too many minutes and the defense was poor.
  18. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,404
    Likes Received:
    71
    Location:
    Windsor, Ontario
    I wasn't able to watch this game, but looking a the box score, a couple of stats jumped out at me (unfortunately, not in a good way):

    Stuckey, 10 mins, minus 17
    J-Max, 20 mins, minus 14
    Hayes, 10 mins, minues 18
  19. alexa032

    alexa032 Team Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2007
    Messages:
    783
    Likes Received:
    257
    The Pistons' starters playing 40+ minutes on the front end of a back to back = :wacko:
    I have a hard time believing anything Flip says anymore. If you're going to use Stuckey as an excuse to play your starters into the ground, at least make it look credible by playing him more than 10 minutes. The bench has very little confidence right now; they're forcing things too much at times, and being too tentative at times. Regular season wins mean crap if your starters are dead tired when it counts. I bet the announcement of a shortened rotation was met with a lot of groans.
  20. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    12,566
    Likes Received:
    1,658
    Location:
    Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    Second straight game where the two starting guards score 52+points to make up for an anemic bench and at least one front court man who barely shows up.

    With two losses already to the Bulls, Flip will consider it a must win game so look for the starters to play another 38+ mins unless a couple of them get in foul trouble.

    Pistons need to get some easy wins, when do we play the Sonics, Twolves, Heat and Clippers again:)

Share This Page