SanAntonio Feb 14 7:30PM

Discussion in 'February 2007' started by max, Feb 8, 2007.

  1. 4cwebb

    4cwebb First Round Draft Pick

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    Wow, Elson really outshining any Piston front court player...12 pts and 15 boards by the end of the 3rd. Think Nazr would've posted those numbers by this point in a Spurs uni?
  2. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    well, at least you got nails...


    ...in our coffins
  3. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    Disappointing loss tonight. Starters got down by a bit in the first quarter, the bench made things a lot worse, and then the starters came back in and made it even worse still, as the Spurs went up 16 at the half. Third quarter was a wash, and then a couple of late runs by the Pistons made it a little better cosmetically, but they were never really in the game. They got torched by Elson and even by Jacques Vaughan, who tore the Pistons apart at the end of the first quarter and on into the second.
  4. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    We are not there--YET. Spurs are a hardened team having played the Suns and Dallas a bunch. We did not come out at that level. We cannot win without playing swarming-type defense the whole game--that is why I do not like a lot of zoning for this team.

    The biggest problem is still the offense. The Spurs know how to play us--get up on Billips and close out the shooters. It is not that our shots weren't falling early more than we weren't open a lot. Our shots weren't falling in last years playoffs either. Is there a pattern? The Spurs have big trouble with speed and we don't have that to hurt them. Still, we did not attack enough.

    The offense has no fall back scoring when we get into trouble. We have no default mode on offense. So you saw the same quick shots, off-kilter drives, etc. that we saw in the playoffs. I do blame the coach for not installing an NBA offense prior to Webber.

    I do not blame the coach for the second team. Everyone has a favorite but the fact is that the second unit gets consistently outscored. It does not even play good defense. If our first unit falters early, we are in trouble.

    We needed this to know where we need to go. Joe will make a move.
  5. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    I see from people's comments here that a whole lot of people missed the game, even if they were watching it. Of course, with the announcers going on about a great performance Hunter had, I guess they can use that as an excuse.

    Hunter did hit some shots, great. But some people miss the fact that he is our backup point guard. A backup point guard who played so poorly, as a point guard, that SA got way up on us while he was in. I will repeat: When did SA get the big lead? The moment Hunter came in the game, things fell apart. We need a backup point something fierce. Or a coach who is not blind. I will give Flip this; he only made us suffer for about a minute or so in the 2nd half with Hunter playing make believe that he is a point guard.

    Rip remains rock solid as a scorer for us. Tay had a bad night with his outside shooting, and despite trying to go inside several times could not score against some pretty good D by SA. CB managed some scoring, but it was not what we wanted for the most part; he was forced to use a perimeter game because the inside game was not working.

    Sheed hit a three or two, and like Tay, did try scoring in the post several times, but with at least some success. On D, Duncan scored plenty on Sheed, and Webber could not stop him either without a lot of doubling up.

    Dyess was useless in this one. JMAX gave us a chance to come back at least with solid D in the 4th quarter. Why didn't JMAX get to play in the first half, again? Who knows. Far as I can tell, Saunders wants to ice Maxiell's shooting, so won't play him enough to get his offense going. Sound crazy-its not. Coaches do this. Flip has pretty much announced he wants to "start playing harder" after the all-star break. His way of saying he wants to shorten the rotation. Can't have JMAX doing too good.

    Delfino played excellent in this game. Not much scoring, but great on D. When they let him bring the ball up, the ball got into the post in a few seconds, not with half the clock gone, or never, if Hunter brought the ball up. This is non-sense that Hunter ever brings the ball up at all.

    No Dale Davis, but we sure could have used his D in this one. Webber could do nothing against SA's running game. He did help us with some scoring from the post, just not enough tonight to make up for being too slow. Not a good fit against this team. Even at his age, Dale Davis gets down as well as any big on transition D, and he should have been playing, even starting, this game. Still, even though it ended, good win streak. GO PISTONS!!!!!
  6. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Well so much for going into the break on winning note. This was supposed to be the NBA TV game of the night ..and it was for the Spurs.... It was only one loss, but one to an elite team that was struggling. Hopefully this tells Joe that in order to compete with those teams out west, we need to drop the verified dead weight in Nazr and Flip jr and replace them with one or two bodies who can fill in when one of our staters decides to turn in a deadweight performance. :) Yeah I am takling about you Tay. 1-8 shooting and 4 rebounds. Dice didn' t score but at least he had 2 steals and 2 blocks...

    This game was lost in the first qtr when the Jacque Vaughn took the ball with 5 seconds left and dribbled coast to coast untouched by any Piston and handed off to Oberto for an and one situation that he cashed in on. That set the tone for the rest of the half and into the 3rd.

    The Pistons opened the second defenseless and offenseless as the Spurs bench lead by Genobli effectively ended the game before the quarter was over. You knew the Pistons were in trouble when Hunter had 5 of your first seven points of the quarter at the six minute mark. How many of you really thought we would erase a 17 point halftime to lead to the Spurs. Is the bench of Genobli, Horry, Finly and Vaughn better than Hunter, Dice, Delfino and JMAX? Well tonight they were as all of the Spurs were focused for the whole game and ther Pistons were dreaming about vegas and vacation in the first 3 quarters.

    The Pistons shot less than 34% for the first half while the Spurs were at 56%. I think they showed a graphic at half time where they were up 24-8 for points in the paint. The Pistons reversed that in the second half beating them 20-12, but it was just to much to over come.

    They finally woke up and hit some shots in the 4th but to many perimeter shots in the first 3 quarters and all of the eazy shots refuse to fall where it seems that all of the Spurs shots fell. If we had a penetrator like Parker or had scorer off the bench like Genobli we be the favorite to win it all, not just win the east.
    Winning the east is not enough Joe, :second: :(
  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I hope you are copyng that from another board because it sounds really condescending.
  8. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    The second unit gets consistently outscored. I wouldn't just put the onus on one player. But obviously we need help. That unit does not play good defense (even with Delfino and Hunter) and that too is a problem. They do not stop people either.

    But our First Unit was outplayed but a toughened SA team. It was the same old (playoff) story--jam up Billips and take away the shooters. Now the shots are somewhat contested and we miss.

    The adjustment? There is no immediate adjustment. A different guy takes the contested jumper. We finally started to will our way out of it as we attacked what is basically a slow SA unit. But then too, some wild drives and quick shots took away our momemtum.

    I am not worried. We needed to have a thumping to know where we have to go. With Chris, the offense can improve.
  9. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Sprocket says…

    The Pistons seven game winning streak ends tonight at the hands of the Spurs. For the past several games superior Piston execution on both the offensive and defensive end of the floor made them look as if they were playing at a different speed than the opposition. Tonight the Spurs took advantage of cold Pistons shooting and out-executed them when it mattered to gain the nine point win that was only close in the first and last five minutes of the game.

    The Pistons start the first quarter cold missing two close in shots in the first two minutes. A couple of Pistons turnovers on top of five missed shots by Rasheed, including two threes, puts the Spurs up by six. The Spurs have already subbed for Barry and Duncan by the time the first Pistons reserves enter the game. With Duncan on the bench from around the three minute mark of the first until he returns at about the eight minutes mark of the second the Spurs continue the pace, outscoring the Pistons by six more to make a twelve point lead. The Pistons get scrappy near the end of the first, but still lose another five points to the Spurs and the half ends with San Antonio up seventeen. Duncan in, Duncan out, makes no difference to the pace of the Spurs scoring.

    San Antonio looks too quick for the Pistons in the first half, outscoring them on the break eleven to two in the first quarter. In a blow for South American basketball fans everywhere, the first quarter ends with three Argentines in the game. All told the Spurs shoot 56% in the first half to the Pistons 32%.

    The third quarter begins in a seesaw fashion with the Spurs adding one point to the lead by the seven minute mark. The Pistons try to zone (first time in the game?) on consecutive possessions leading to two stops. At a timeout around the three minute mark Pop jumps all over Tony Parker despite Parker’s line of six for ten from the field with seven assists and two steals. It works though as the Spurs suddenly solve the Piston’s zone with quick cuts to the middle. Elson for San Antonio has 12 points and 15 boards by the end of the third, including two layups against the zone.

    The Pistons finally begin to play with a bit of desperation in the fourth led by Carlos Delfino with a block, a steal, a couple of rebounds, and a coast to coast drive for two. The lead is cut to twelve at the six minute mark when Delfino goes to the bench for good. Lindsey Hunter, perhaps having followed the PF thread about how poorly he is shooting, goes three for three from three, including one in the run. But, the Pistons miss two more close in shots, and Duncan makes an all-star move against Sheed for a basket while Parker drives for a very tough layup. The Pistons continue to push but can get no closer than seven as the Spurs shoot eleven for twelve (13-14?) from the stripe in the fourth.

    Detroit pulls its final shooting percentage up to 41% for the game, but the Spurs shoot well enough in the second half to end at 50%. The Pistons are outrebounded by 10 and end up four down in the assist column. Prince and Dice have particularly unmemorable games shooting one for eleven combined with only five rebounds. Delfino and Wallace also shoot poorly, 1-5 and 5-15 respectively. Without these four the remaining Pistons shoot 25 for 47, better than the Spurs.
  10. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

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    We can toss around much blame for why this game was lost; one reason really stands out to me - rebounds!

    Did anyone notice CB was our leading rebounder along with Sheed with seven!! In 15 minutes Delfino had six......WTF is that??

    You would think somebody would put a body on Elson or whatever his name is.........he looked like Dennis Rodman or somebody...

    Let`s hope the Pistons were just looking ahead to the break.........
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    microcap.

    I last got up for the Raptors game. That was a good one. Tonight, I was plagued by the all to familiar distant relative call late in the second half that takes away from watching the game all the way out.

    Of course, suficient liquid refreshment will help numb watching your team absolutely come out flat and get dominated by a rival.

    I hate to sound like a party pooper but there were really no silver linings on this cloud for me. It was mostly hail, thunderbolts and monsoon showers.

    Early on I knew we were in trouble unless we could settle down and establish a serious push. Delfino was posting up, Billups was trying to drive and make plays deep in the paint and we were not going to Webber to set up our offense.m We played totally out of character, either by design, laziness or the Spurs imposing their will.

    The Spurs were simply faster rotating and seemed to force us into jumpers or baseline post ups where they could double and retreat.

    Conversely, we tried to play zone, which the well coached Spurs picked apart, and our man defense looked like man/zone with too many players floating without taking individual responsibility for their guy.

    I credit Flip Saunders for pulling out Tayshaun quite a bit in the first half. He was so ineffective this game, you have to wonder if he will ever develop a killer instinct, particularly when guarded by Brent Barry.

    To my dismay, Flip neither flipped out on Leon Wood (the former Spur, now referee) nor did he try to establish a grind it out lineup with rarely used Dale Davis. It was "our offense" or bust, and despite Flip's post game moaning about All-Star focus, you don't beat the Spurs in a running game when you aren't a running team. Good defense will always nullify good offense.

    The Spurs rotated players early and often, it's one of my favorite Popovich traits. This allowed role players like Elson to dominate the paint and Jacque Vaughan to look like Vinnie Johnson.

    Billups - did a lot but not enough and almost everything he did was out of character. With a size advantage against Vaughan and Parker, you would think that he would work his brilliant post up scoring to his advantage. He did not. On defense, he's a lazy help defender, and tonight the passsing attack of the Spurs exposed him out of place and caught in no mans land.

    Rip - Had a fine scoring game, but did not make it to the line enough to pressure Popovich into making substitutions based on need.

    Tayshaun - Disappointing effort. Shameful. 2 points in 31 minutes without an assist and Mr. Softy didn't make it to the line once.

    CWebb - A good game, but was not given the opportunity to play out of double teams and create offense. Parker exposed his lack of athleticism and speed defending the paint. It was a clinic on how to score on him.

    Rasheed had the task of guarding Duncan, which I thought he did ok at. His offense however was missing, and it all started with a soft post up against Elson. Seemed a step slow throughout the game and at times, too flabbergasted or uninterested to even get his arms up for rebounds.

    Lindsey Hunter had the kind of game he needs to have against a team like this. 3 triples kept the fans in their seats when the team was having trouble generating any momentum.

    Delfino and McDyess were both disappointing. Dice played nice defense but was unable to pressure anyone with his scoring. 6 boards show some work in the paint, but not enough against the longer Elson and Duncan. Delfino played some good hustle basketball, but the lack of a jumpshot continues to plague him, as well as the ability to play the P&R. Not that this was exclusive to Delfino, as the Pistons were taken apart by the pick all night.

    Maxiell, please people.

    I don't know what the coaches are coaching, but there was no changeup in how we defended the P&R all night. It was tough to watch.

    The Spurs are a veteran team, finishing up an EIGHT game road trip. We had them at home on a day's rest and didn't approach this game with any seriousness.

    It's only one game, but certainly disheartening from a team that seems more interested in taking their midseason vacations or rubbing elbows with William Wesley at the All-Star game than sending a message to the West that the Pistons are not to be trifled with.

    Some folks will call for a trade, but when you're flat, one guy off the bench won't make a difference. This was a mail in, and had I known that before hand, I probably would have written "Return to Sender" on the envelope.
  12. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Well wasn't that a jinx waiting to happen. :)

    I pray for the day that the Pistons don't make opposing mediocre bigs look like all-stars on a regular basis.
  13. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    In my defense, that was a career game for him. He hasn't had a double digit rebounding game all season.

    Let's just put me down as a poor fortune teller. :(
  14. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Micro,

    Excellent recap. Agree. Everything we did was out of kilter. But now they know the offense needs to go Chris-side out (ball to Chris and work off that) a lot more of the time.

    This team can't win against the good teams without a defense first approach with steals and blocks and close outs.
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    lapiston, some might think I am a bonehead for liking the Spurs, but their style of fundamental, "smart" basketball is enjoying to me.

    They outsmarted us. We didn't adjust defensively to what they were doing, and we did not even try our new offense, and then late tried to catch up by hoisting treys.

    We could have played Davis on Duncan, allowing Sheed and Webber to spread the floor, but didn't. Timmy ate us up inside, Manu killed us off the pick and roll and someone needs to sit Tony Parker down on his keister really hard and remind him why the big guys play in the paint.

    We do not have a shotblocker on this team. No paint intimidator. Teams are going to come after us. We have to execute on offense and make smart defensive adjustments.
  16. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    I'll ditto that.
  17. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    The lack of team speed was front and center this game... They have been relying on the opponent to just make one or two passes... but the Spurs will make you work for 24 seconds.... It coulda been a lot worse... the Spurs missed numerous uncontested shots in the 1st qtr.
    Their help and recovery was much better than ours.

    Why we didn't iso Tay on Barry more is a mystery (or bad coaching/player decisions)...
    1-4-3 was back at it again ZZZzzzzz.
    Chauncey did a poor job of recognizing the double team... getting stripped numerous times.

    Webb had his cement shoes on display tonight.
    This game may have been the best thing that happened to the team all year... a reality check for the coach, players & GM.
  18. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I hope I'm wrong, but it seemed to me like we finally got a glimpse of playoff basketball. The easy points in the lane dried up. Our jumpers were contested. The calls were frustrating. And the importance of coaching was magnified.

    It could be coincidental, but this is why I still think we are a piece or two short. Also, in this type of game, I think Webber gets somewhat neutralized and Dale Davis would make an impact.
  19. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Tayshawn,

    Agree, that was a glimpse of playoff basketball and we aren't quite there yet. SA knows how to get into our offensive game by getting up on Billips and closing out well on the shooters. We have to make Chris more the focal point. Make them stop that first.

    And coaching then comes into the equation and adjustments. I too agree with others that Davis would help against this team.

    Agree about lacking the team speed but we can still attack this team and get into their game. Notice that they did have trouble with Rip.

    Well, our guys know now that they are going to have to go out there and take it and step up another level.

    I wonder what Joe is thinking?
  20. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think that part of the problem was that we didn't show a sense of urgency until the game had slipped away from us. The past few wins came so easy, that we probably thought we could relax until the 2nd half. Delfino gave his trademark hustle and Lindsey was actually making shots tonight, which as least made this game respectable.

    I'm really glad that Sheed didn't get T'd up, because he was obviously frustrated. It was either a nice job by him or by the refs to show restraint.

    Because I was caught up in the game and not really analyzing it, I didn't even notice why Tay got shut down so badly. Who was Bowen guarding?

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