Saunders being blamed for Minni issues

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by mikhail1973, Oct 29, 2007.

  1. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    Where does that "should" come from? Minnesota was the lower-seeded team the first six times they lost in the first round, so I don't really see how those can be characterized as disappointing losses. The seventh year, they had home court in a 4-5 matchup against the Lakers, but LA had dropped to the 5th spot because of injuries and still came within one Horry miss against SA of possibly winning their 4th 'ship in a row. And then the eighth year, they had the best record in the conference but got hit by injuries when they faced the Lakers in the conference finals.

    I'm not going to say that Flip achieved at an acceptable level in the past two conference finals with the Pistons--clearly, he didn't--but I don't see much similarity with his playoff record in Minnesota.
  2. aurora

    aurora Bench Warmer

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    Pimpin' that Sheed hater thread I see. Too much. Way to be a fan man.
  3. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    It is not Sheed hating, just mere discussion of the facts at hand. It is a fact that Sheed asked players not to follow Flip's directives and we are trying to figure out if and how it could impact this upcoming season.
  4. aurora

    aurora Bench Warmer

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    Good Luck with that.
  5. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    With '97 being their first year in the playoffs, you can almost expect the sweep that happened and they didn't stand much of a chance in '98 being a 7th seed. I will grant you that maybe in '99 and 2000 they probably didn't stand much of a chance as an 8th seed and 6th seed respectively, but even there you can see the trend of the team getting better per its regular season record. But, they managed to get worse a year later in 01 and drop back to an 8th seed.

    Now, in '02 things get interesting. They never even put up a fight and failed to win a single game against 4th seeded Dallas (which shouldn't happen in a 4/5 matchup). In '03 they lost to a 5th seeded Laker team in 6 and in '04 they lost again in 6 to a 2nd seed Laker team when they had the #1 seed.

    So, I definitely see a trend here. Even if you can make the claim that they were learning on the go as a playoff team their 1st 2 or 3 trips in, they failed to get any better at performing in the playoffs. Now as far as Flip's last 3 playoff appearances in Minny, there is a clear pattern. They got the 5th seed in '02 and failed to put up a fight against a 4th seed getting swept...unacceptable. Again, in '03 and '04 Flips teams had the higher seed and home court and got bounced in 6. Exactly what's happened here, only here you could argue that Flips teams were even BETTER and he still managed to get bounced in less than 7 games against opponents seeded lower than his team.

    This guy doesn't get the job done and he's shown it before and is proving it yet again. I guess he'll have to get eliminated by a 7th or 8th seed before anyone will admit that he just isn't good enough.
  6. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Where is this FACT you speak of? Unless there is a written/audio account of Joe Dumars, Dolphin, or Sheed owning up to that taking place, there is no "fact" to highlight this discussion.
  7. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Feisty Saunders still fighting back

    On Rasheed, Flip and Game 5 sabotage | Detroit Bad Boys
    cleveland.com: Everything Cleveland

    Pistons concede nothing - BostonHerald.com
    I think this should be enough.
  8. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    You know, I really feel bad that you wasted all that time looking these up. Again, show me a clip or an interview from Joe D, Dolphin, or Sheed.

    You failed to do such. NOTHING in ANY of those articles is 1st person. Just showing a sentence where one of those guys says they don't always see eye to eye is not going to prove an accusation of full-on/unadulterated insubordination in plain sight of the entire world and having the ability to then convince an ENTIRE ROSTER to follow you.

    In fact, in most of your examples you provide exactly what I referred to ealier, some 3rd or 4th party taking word from McCrapsky. The closest thing to even mentioning Sheed doing anything specific was from Detroit Bad Boys (Blog) mentioning that Sheed was spoken to by Flip and Joe regarding game 5 to which there is also no evidence to support that claim. Half of these stories are built on the witness protection program of one Chris McCoskey whose clueless evaluations, blind loyalty, and constant ability to be ignored and not communicated with by Joe Dumars make 75% percent of anything he writes worthless.
  9. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    That seemed good enough for me...
  10. NYPistonFan729

    NYPistonFan729 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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  11. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    I find it hard to take as fact the word of a local hack that repeatedly fails to report accurate insider info on a regular basis. How many times has this guy given you some news of an impending signing or deal that's supposed to go down and be completely wrong? His insider info is always suspect and he constantly writes from the position of 'what he thinks' as opposed to what is reality.
  12. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    I gave you quotes from different sources, but I guess it's not good enough.
  13. max

    max All-Star

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    You know what probably happened. Sheed changed 1 or 2 plays and someone just ran with it.
  14. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    It doesn't matter if it is even a couple of plays. When the team is defying coach's directives - the team is doomed.
  15. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    None of your sources are in the Pistons organization.

    No, it's not good enough.

    When Ben had a problem with Flip, you heard it straight from the horses mouth.
    When Darko/LB had issues, you got it right from both horses mouths.
    When Davidson had problems with LB, he wasn't a "good person."

    These guys have no problem speaking up when there are things going on. So, no McCrapsky's accusations and blind support for Flip hold no weight with me whatsoever.
  16. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Flip and Sheed both acknowledeged that there were issues. Joe did the same. I know it all doesn't matter.
  17. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    "Issues" is a long far cry away from single handedly taking control of an entire team away from a coach, calling your own set of plays (as if Sheed has a playbook), AND GETTING AN ENTIRE ROSTER TO GO ALONG WITH YOU.
  18. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    After thinking about this whole thing, I agree with Low that the whole idea of Rasheed taking control of the team and calling plays like that is farfetched. There might be a kernal of truth...maybe an isolated incident and McCoskey ran with it and built it into an article.

    At least it got some discussion going and got us thinking a bit.
  19. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    So, I guess whatever Buddha and I did worked after all. That was the whole point of it.
    :stirthepot:
  20. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    In a case like the Pistons in the ECF, I could imagine a team getting frustrated with a lack of leadership from the coach, taking matters into their own hands and following a guy that doesn't want to lose. If in fact Sheed led a mutiny, I think he had the best intentions for success of the team.

    Off-the-wall analogous...ever see the movie Crimson Tide?

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