Shopping for Bargains has come back to haunt us

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by armygirl, May 25, 2006.

  1. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    EARLY BIRD EXCEPTION -- This is a weaker form of the Larry Bird exception, and is also a component of the Veteran Free Agent exception. Players who qualify for this exception are called "Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agents" in the CBA. A player qualifies for this exception after playing two seasons without being waived or changing teams as a free agent. Using this exception, a team may re-sign its own free agent for 175% of his salary the previous season or the average player salary, whichever is greater (see question number 24 for the definition of "average salary." Also note that for 2005-06 they used a defined figure of $5 million)

    As a question, wouldn't this apply to Memo?
  2. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Merc you are absolutely right, I was crying all summer for Joe to make a run at Antonio Daniels. Daniels would have been absolutely perfect as the third guard, Tough, strong and can play either spot, and he did his time under Pop in SanAnton so he knows how to play at a high level. After Daniels was signed in Washington, I begged for Joe to make a run at Earl Watson via Sign and Trade (Arroyo +Delfino=Earl) that would have still left us with the MLE to go and get DD, it also wouldn't have created the Mo or Delfino dilemma.

    I don't know if Joe could have signed any of these guys, but I was disappointed that we did not try to make a legit run at either guy. In Joe's mind there is no way in heck he's paying a backup over $4mill to sit for 35+ mpg. Arroyo was decent but overpaid for a guy that only plays 12mpg. In short while it's clear we really need a backup G, with the type of season CB had, that player was only going to have an extremely limited role.
  3. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    kgreg, your post succeeds in clearing up the point I was trying to make. The Pistons shied away from making potential improvements because they kept their eye too much on the $$, I didn't mean to get into discussions about MLE/Bird rights, who was available, trade possibilities etc. Joe is the one cutting the deals and I am sure there are many ways to get over the exceptions if the desire to sign someone exists. Instead we are talking about Larry, Moe and Curly coming off the bench.
  4. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    This is my opinion: I think Joe Dumars makes moves that will help the Pistons win championships. I don't think he would shy away from a move solely for financial reasons.
  5. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    I'll put some of the blame on LB... he really wanted Arroyo after being torched by him in the Olympics.
    It still comes down to the players choice... go where he will only play 12-15 minutes?... it would've taken some serious arm twisting to convince Danials/Watson otherwise
  6. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Memo was in the same boat as Arenas the year before.... when you are under the cap you have to make a choice...use your MLE (still an option under the cap) or use your cap space and forego all exceptions... we went the cap route... it was not possible to match what Utah had to offer cause we could only spend up to the soft cap.

    This year the new CBA addressed teams losing their two year players (2nd round picks)... by allowing them to match any and all offers as long as they owned the full MLE.... they could go over the MLE as long as they didn't use any of the MLE on a different player.

    This is where it became interesting for the Pistons this year because they drafted two players in the 2nd round (not having a guaranteed rookie contract).... Joe had to consider resigning them down the road... so here's what he did:
    Went ahead and signed Amir to the two year deal... but held off and only signed Acker to one year... why?... because if their contracts came up in the same year he would potentially lose one of them (once you start using your MLE on player #1 you can't match offers on player #2)...
    This way he could keep Acker on the low this year and sign him to a longer term contract next year.... this may backfire if another team really liked what they saw in Fayetteville... but it gives Joe a fighting chance to keep both Amir & Acker.
  7. max

    max All-Star

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    Merc - good observation on Amir and Acker. I did not realize that before and it makes a lot of sense.

    This post is a classic example of playing monday morning quarterback. You take the results of the season and say what should have and could have been done.

    Going back to last summer Delfino was supposed to play heavy mins at backup 2/3, Arroyo was the backup PG, Darko was supposed to play at least 5-10 MPG, and Davis/Evans were brought in as insurance. Hunters status was in question. He almost retired and his return back date from his injury was unknown. We also had Maxiel who was also supposed to be given a shot since his DNA was so Piston-like. It was the general concensious on all Piston chat boards that going "homegrown" over getting someone like Finley was the way to go.

    As it turned out Darko/Delfino did not have a breakout season like they were supposed to have and Arroyo was trade fodder in the Orlando deal. If you want to knock Dumars for anything then perhaps its not waiting until the summer to pull the Darko/Arroyo deal as we could have used Arroyos offense at times this post-season. We don't know the specifics of why it was done. Perhaps it was the best deal that came across his desk all year and he took the opportunity to get a potential lottery pick.
  8. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    1. Ronald Murray - delk is better AND we acquired him
    2. Troy Bell - who?
    3. Steve Blake - who?
    4. Chris Duhon - perhaps...
    5. Antonion Daniels ******** (favorite) - i'll give you that one
    6. Marko Jaric - this guy sucks
    7. Earl Watson********** (favorite) - not bad but lindsey plays this role just fine
    8. Brevin Knight - little chance of signing, he shoots as bad or worse than lindsey and can't play defense
    9. Ty Lue - delk fits this role fine
    10. Damon Stodamire? - please no
    11. Keyon Dooling - not a great player
  9. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    We get so tied up in "this payer was horrible when he played for so & so, therefore, he will play like crap here. Different players excel in certain systems. Chauncey sucked when he played for teams X, Y & Z. He came to the Pistons and exceled. Would have never thought that Ben Wallace would be the beast that he is today when he was with washington. Boris Diaw is another one. Steve Blake & Juan Dixon are the only two consistent players on the portland team. Granted the team is horrible, but living in D.C. there was so much potential with both these guys.

    So we have to be careful when we label a player, Earl Watson & Lindsay Max, whatever you are smoking I will take a double.:laugh:
  10. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Anyway, the whole isssue is this:

    We cannot move forward if we can't look at past mistakes. Even Joe Dumars learned from what he coulda, shoulda and woulda done I gaurantee you that.

    I will continue to believe that bench strength is essential to winning a championship. You may may take home one trophy, but don't bring that weak stuff back in here next year and try and win it again.

    Love Dumars, I am stone cold detroit, native baby, nothing but the best for my team, nothing but the best.

    Like my commander said yesterday when I told him I wanted to take leave, the first thing he asked was: "Is your backup locked, cocked and a squared away soldier? if the answer is no, then you may as well take it to the house? " Translation: if the answer is no then leave denied. My bench isn't that strong, so until the Command can find a backup, I won't be going on leave for awhile.
  11. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    we won in 04 without playing the bench much in the finals, and how soon we forget the 'soft' labels attached to okur, or 'scoreliss williamson' chants. we almost won in 05 with no bench.
  12. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I guess we will win iin 06 without one either.
  13. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    as long as we win that's fine w/me!! :D
  14. max

    max All-Star

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    I will be smoking a championship Cigar around June 20th
  15. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    As long as i's tobacco in that thar cigar:laugh:

    I thought you had been into the peyote again:laugh:
  16. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Well Army does bring up a pretty good thought...
    What if we weren't as fortunate with injuries...
    Mo & Delfino as your starters? (get chills)
    I'm not sure we coulda had a fair chance of landing Watson or Daniels and it doesn't seem like our reserves would fetch a trade that would be much of an upgrade.
    I'm pleased with what Joe has been able to accomplish without depleting any of the current talent....
    as Max says, it really looked like the plan was for Delfino & Darko to play a larger role... I'm not sure either did much to build confidence.
    Hindsight indeed.
  17. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Lets hope one of the 3 rooks pan out:fingerscr.
  18. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    The name of this thread remind me of Knicks who never shy to pay anybody.
  19. max

    max All-Star

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    Good point. They never met a player they did not want to pay.

    Pistons started this season with around 20 mil allocated to the bench. We spent our mid-level on Dale Davis whom we thought we needed against Miami. All we had were the Mid and min levels and Dumars spent it on Daves and Evans to fit specific roles.

    On Darko/Delfino. We have here a case of selective amnesia. I know there were 10,000 posts written last summer on what a great breakout season everyone was expecting them to have. After the fact you can't come in here and pretend like they were not going to factor into the team and that Dumars should have cleared cap room to sign some veteran players for the bench. Nobody here or at Det wanted vets - we all wanted to give Darko/Delfino and even Maxiel a chance.

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