Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by max, Jun 4, 2007.
Should Flip Saunders return next season?
I'm inclined to say no, largely because I think it's easier to move him along and hopefully bring in a coach that will utilize the assets which the Pistons currently possess (including the young guys) when compared with a roster overhaul. One of Flip's problems is that he hasn't really shown that he can take teams past the CF in either conference, but for the Pistons not advancing past the ECF is effectively a failure. I'm not sure if another coach is out there that can get this group (or the core of this group, with or without CWebb) back to the NBA Finals, but it seems after two years that it's time to take that chance.
No. Losing the exact same way in the exact same series on the exact same game against the exact same type of team is no coincidence.
I'll allow that I don't know with any certainty what went on in the locker room. There's a lot of blame here to be parcelled out. But, to lose two ECF in a row, with what on the surface seem to be the exact same problems - inability to score after scoring well all season, inability to get stops when needed, seems like a coaching problem. And as others have observed, it's easier to move a coach than a team.
This is a no brainer.
if we're making another run, then no.
Flip coaching has IMO improved since last year's playoff but he clearly doesn't have good foundational principles of developing and utilizing the bench and does not appear to make good in game adjustments. On the other hand this player group is bloated with a exagerrated sense of self worth. They need to retool the starting lineup to deflate some egos and ensure that everybody plays together as a TEAM. Joe has allowed this " we know what to do", "the real season starts in the playoff" attitude fester too long. If you're not part of the program then you're off it. Sheed and CB appear from all reports to be the prime instigators of this individualistic behavior. Taking tech's does not show responsibility toward one's team mates, even if you were jobbed. Plus the Pistons whine about every frickin call, right or wrong. This is a bad attitude. Joe needs to address this by cutting out the problem or having a serious one-on-one. One or two bad apples spoil the whole bunch. It's up to Joe to identify the character weaknesses, otherwise every coach besides LB will find the going tough.
Should he? NO Will he? Yes. Only because I can't see Davidson opening up the uOFm change purse and paying off another coach to 'not coach'. Hiring this guy would be ballsy and would be the right move.
Did the Spurs fire Pop after they had an early exit or 2 the last few years (granted he has won a title but early exits for the spurs are just as inexcusable) The Pistons should not make knee jerk reactions. That said there are some pieces that need to change but who and why are important. If Joe breaks up the core he better know what he is doing or risk losing more than just games. IMO Flip stays...... not that I would want him here, but who is a better replacement.
Totally different. Totally. Flip is like Popovich like I am like Hemingway.
Flip would be a great assistant. His plays are not bad. He just doesn't have the fire to get to these players. Playcalling is important, but it's not the most important thing. Even if he is a good playcaller, he has few post up plays as well. He has improved, but I would like to see a new coach here.
This guy has been a coach for a long, long time. People talk about improvement like he is a new coach and still mastering the pro-game. To give a point of reference, only 2 Pistons coaches in franchise history have coached more games than Flip Saunders. Daly and Brown. And don't forget that Flip was a coach in the CBA for several years. I know people like to toss out that Larry was a loser until he came to Detroit, but that's not wholly accurate. Larry didn't win a title, but he took a lot of bad teams and made them better. And in Philly, he did make it to the championship round with a totally overmatched roster. Maybe the standard is too high when we talk about Popovich, Brown, Daly, etc. but good coaches get into the playoffs and win a series or two. Great coaches find a way, whether it is a mind game with the players, a motivational speech, a clever strategy, plays out of timeouts, working the press/refs what have you, great coaches find something that wasn't there before and add it in to make the mix more potent. A coach has to be pro-active AND re-active. He is the 6th man.
You hit right on the nail, man. I don't trust him. Period. Don't tell me how hard it was to coach our starters, let alone how ego this team is, just tell me what a head coach's job is supposed to be.
And he did in College and I believe the ABA, both of which are light years above the CBA.
IMO the Pistons overall sense of entitlement or thinking they are better than they really contributes to their lack of post-season success. Fire Flip, but that will not change the attitude of the team. This group of players has to be shaken up to freshen up the atmosphere.
That's exactly the problem. The right coach would do everything in his power to keep these guys grounded...not just shrug his shoulders and whine that this is the group we have....or did everyone just forget that was one of the things LB did well. He stayed on these guys hard...to the point where they were clandestinely %%%%%ing to the media about it. However, come playoff time, you saw 100% effort which has since become the exception and not the rule. Coaches are responsible for getting their players in the right mind state. Sense of entitlement is a mind state and it's Flips job to make sure our players don't get stuck there instead of feeding into it.
I would let him return to clean out his desk.
While I agree that a coaches job is to motivate and energize his players I am sick of these overpaid athletes needing to be baby sat. There are only a handful of championship coaches, at some point in time you would expect grown men to have a sense of accountability. I hate making a single person a scapegoat when there many places that blame can be ascribed to. Flip has to take the fall as the leader but I am none too thrilled with this overpampered persona the Pistons have taken.
Joe bears some responsibility for this.
I am having a hard time trying to figure out what his job is? When we brought him here I thought it was because he was the author of a good play book and that he would let us use those plays. Those plays don't seem to work in the play offs. I can tell you that he has no clue about substitution patterns/bench development. But is that part of his job? Do we expect him to TEACH these guys how to play basketball or just be the guy who decides when players will enter and exit the games?
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