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Should Flip Return?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by max, Jun 4, 2007.

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Should Flip Return?

  1. Yes

    9.1%
  2. No

    81.8%
  3. Undecided

    9.1%
  1. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    Agreed. The attitude of this team at this point in time is not consistent with Joe's work ethic and focus as a player. Joe should have identified the source of the problem i.e. coach, players or both and taken it to them.

    LB had Sheed in his pocket, that connection surely must have helped bring everyone else in line.
     
  2. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Why are we discussing this issue? Ultimately, it came down to players on the Cavs that stepped up their game in the ECF and players on the Pistons that did not. Coaching had little to do with this playoff exit.

    If there is a coach out there that is clearly an upgrade over Saunders, than I am all for improving the team. Joe Dumars has some decisions to make about the future direction of the organization. Perhaps which players will be part of the core in the upcoming years will help dictate what type of coach would best suit the personnel.
     
  3. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Then why have a coach at all?
     
  4. st8ofmind

    st8ofmind Bench Warmer

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    Gotta have somebody to axe when you have a bad year, it can't be the soft ass players (not the pistons' case but it is for 90% of the teams)
     
  5. max

    max All-Star

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    The playoff mins for the starters increased significantly from the 2 finals years to the 2 Flip years. The starters ran out of gas in the 2 Flip years. What does that tell you?

    No lessons learned from last season. In spite of all the talk of developing the bench it was the same dang thing in the post-season with the same results. A spent team by the time the 3rd round rolled in with no legs.
     
  6. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    Flip didn't do enough to develop them or he didn't trust them.
     
  7. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    I don't know if it is issue of trust. The guy would come in the 1st half of the game, play well, score, get boards, defend and then won't come off the bench in the 2nd half. Is this a matter of trust? I don't think so. I think it is something that needs to be looked at really really hard. When the guys on the bench don't know their roles and have no defined rotation they are going to struggle every time.
    Having said that, Joe has to think really hard about what to do. Bringing a new coach is not going to change the mindset of these players. I think some changes need to be maid, but I would keep Flip for another year. Maybe bring Bill in as an assistant and if things are still bad make him a coach next year.
     
  8. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I'm not saying a coach doesn't make a difference. I'm just saying that coaching was not the ultimate difference between this year's Cavs-Pistons series. If guys like Billups and Prince would have shown up with just their "B" games, the Pistons would have won the series. Lots of blame to be spread around (including Saunders).
     
  9. st8ofmind

    st8ofmind Bench Warmer

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    Guess I'm hoping that Flip would bring his "A" game once in a while.
     
  10. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    My biggest problem with Saunders in this series was in Game 5 when the Pistons let LeBron scored a gazillion points in a row. When he is on a roll like that, you have to double-team him whenever he has the ball. You can't give up uncontested layups. When a Piston just stands there and watches LeBron go by, the coach should sit that player's butt on the pine.
     
  11. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    That would've meant bringing 5 players off the bench.

    :MusicBigGrin:
     
  12. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    So be it. If that is what it takes for Flip to sub in the second half of a game.

    "I don't know if it is issue of trust. The guy would come in the 1st half of the game, play well, score, get boards, defend and then won't come off the bench in the 2nd half. Is this a matter of trust? I don't think so. I think it is something that needs to be looked at really really hard. When the guys on the bench don't know their roles and have no defined rotation they are going to struggle every time."

    EXACTLY. The bench had ZERO idea what the game plan was that Flip had.
     
  13. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Dude, think about it. You can't get high school players to do the little things. You can't get college players to remember all the right things to do. It has nothing to do with being overpaid or baby sat and everything to do with the reason you have a coach. To instruct, lead, and motivate.

    You can't expect a sport in which players have NEVER played without coaching to all of a sudden not need coaching. It can't/won't ever happen, no matter how much you pay them. These are not golfers or tennis players...those kind of players don't need coaching. Basketball players need coaching. When time outs are called the players come back to the bench and stare at who? The Coach. They don't call time outs and secretly discuss between themselves what they need to do to win.

    This game is structured around the coach understanding the game, his players, and the situations and instructing his players on such and motivating them at the right time to get the most results. It's how this thing works.
     
  14. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    I think Hemingway wore skirts in the closet.

    :hoops:
     
  15. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    He never won in the ABA. Look it up. He coached arguably the best team to ever play in the ABA, the Denver Rockets, and he had great regular season records with them, but got blown out in the playoffs every year.

    :hoops:
     
  16. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Brown traded away the Pistons future, for one title, which we would have won anyway had he played Okur and Darko.

    :hoops:
     
  17. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Que?

    Our future is down in ORL fighting a moustache and being shut down from the perimeter in UTA? For a title, that is a trade I'll make any day of the week.
     
  18. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    i voted undecided. i mean, i want him to go. but for me it's too hard to separate the coaches from the players. it's a complex dynamic. some combos of players can make a coach, and vice-versa. the only thing clear to me is that this particular combination of players with this coach haven't and won't get over the hump.
     
  19. crumbs

    crumbs First Round Draft Pick

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    (Disclaimer: I don't think Flip is the only the reason the Pistons have faltered, but he had played a role in creating/enabling the culture of unaccountability that the team is currently stuck in.)

    I think the best way to judge a coach, regardless of the system or style, is to ask yourself:

    Do the players believe in the "system"?

    It seems clear that Flip has been unable to accomplish this after two years with the club. Everytime the Pistons have stumbled under Flip, they cannot right themselves. The players talk like they believe, but their actions and body language betray the fact that something isn't right.

    After two years, it looks like it's time for Flip to move on. It will only become more difficult to convince players when he has these playoff failures hanging over his head.
     
  20. st8ofmind

    st8ofmind Bench Warmer

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    Another way he and I differ.

    I would not wear skirts here or there, I would not wear them anywhere... I would not wear them in a boat, I would not wear them in a moat...
     

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