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SI's Dwyer: Pistons fit NBA's worst stereotypes

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by LanierFan, Apr 3, 2007.

  1. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    From Kelly Dwyer in Sunday's SI.com:

    Dwyer is one of the sharper mainstream NBA writers, and I must reluctantly agree. Sure, we had several starters feeling their way along after illness or injury. Sure, it's smart to save something for yet another two-month stretch of playoff games.

    But even this team's biggest fans worry about that little switch. You know, the nonexistent switch our guys say they don't turn on and off ... even when it's pretty clear they do.

    I'm not a sky is falling, trade 'em all kind of guy, but I find myself hoping that Joe has a shake-up in mind after this year's title chase. What do you think? And how much change is enough to bring back the fire of four years ago?
     
  2. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Total nonsense written by a guy who probably never has had to run up and down a 94 by 50 chunk of hardwood in his life or at least since he was in high school.

    He should go to a horse race.

    Very few of the greatest races horses, e.g. Seabiscuit, were ever front runners.

    Starting pitchers in baseball have to learn to pace themselves

    To go all out for 48 minutes when you don't have to is the height of foolishness.

    Even though people complain that sometimes the Pistons can't turn it on when they need it, the record of this core group of players over the last several years speaks for itself.

    The Bad Boys, Showtime, etc; all the great defensive teams in the NBA waited until the 4th quarter to turn it on, unless they got really far behind early.

    Dwyer, another sports writer out of touch with reality.

    :hoops:
     
  3. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    Okay, we've got the pro and con sides mapped out pretty good. :)
     
  4. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Dwyer makes a good point. I don't think you can call falling behind in the first quarter of every game pacing yourself. The thing that most of us probably worry about is the "if it ain't rough it ain't right mentality" ...it's just the character of this team and coupled with a coach who has a dubious playoff record ...you have to worry if you are a Piston fan that they might have trouble turning on the switch when they need it.
     
  5. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    Not sure what game this guy watched. The Pistons' bench was great in the second quarter, the starters were at least OK (not great, but not terrible either) in the third, and then the big 14-0 run in the fourth quarter happened long before the two minute mark.

    The first quarter was so incredibly bad that it clearly stands out as evidence of a team that couldn't be bothered to get interested in the game until they were down double digits--no question about it. But to say that they only showed up in the last two minutes is completely wrong. If the Heat brought out the worst in the Pistons in the first quarter (tough to argue that), it's only fair to point out that they also brought out the best of them for most of the fourth.
     
  6. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    Both sides of this issue were presented with strong clarity. The Piston's habit of coming back on teams wouldn't bother me so much if it wasn't so predictable. This Piston's team, like the recent Red Wings team with Yserman, should have won more championships. (gosh, I'm gonna hear about that last sentence.):stirthepot:
     
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I would say that the Pacers probably fit the worst NBA stereotypes... before they all got traded.
     
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    On the eve of the playoffs, this is not a conversation anyone wants to have. But it's frustrating feeling like we left the 05 and 06 championships on the table.

    Personally, I struggle with this a lot. The balance between frustration and bliss. Ecstasy and agony. Faith and doubt.
     
  9. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    There are a lot of teams out there that felt like they should have won Titles that eluded them. That's why I'm glad we snagged it in '04. We aren't burdened by the perpetual choker label... even though that is what we have been doing ever since... chok...ing...
     
  10. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I wouldn't spend too much time agonizing over a past that we cannot change. To be honest, the '88 loss to the Lakers haunted me for the longest time.

    There are always a handful of teams that are capable of winning a championship during any given year. As we know, only one team walks away with the trophy. The others are left scratching their heads, wondering "what if?".

    The Pistons were certainly as good as the Spurs in '05 and as good as the Heat in '06. I wouldn't say they were far superior to those teams, though. I'm sure the Lakers thought they were far superior to the Pistons in '04. It ain't easy being a sports fan...
     
  11. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    I don't think that the Pistons fall behind in every or even in the majority of the first quarters, unless you consider being down by 5 or less points for a few minutes of the quarter, falling behind.

    The only one I know that could blow everyone out on a consistent basis was Satchmo. I hear tell he he even takes first billing to Gabriel these days. LOL

    :hoops:
     
  12. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    People forget that the Pistons still win with defense and it darn tough to play tough defense for 48 minutes.

    So when the games start with the Pistons play a more relaxed defense and they can fall behind if the other team is shooting well and the Pistons are not.

    They use the zone press very effectively to stop other teams in the 4th quarter like they did the Heat on Sunday, just like the Bad Boys and Showtime used to. However, they would not be able to play an effective zone press for 48 minutes.

    The only team I have ever seen that could press effectively for a whole game, game in and game out and get away with it, were some of Tark's Running Rebels squads. Definitely the most exciting college basketball teams that I have ever seen bar none.

    If you saw them play you know what I am talking about. If you never had that pleasure, well you will unfortunately probably never see anything like it unless you can find some tapes of those games.

    :hoops:
     
  13. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think the statistics show that we are at least sluggish in the first quarters.

    http://tinyurl.com/2enmf8


    Look at the "times leading" and the "times trailing" stats.
     
  14. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    ^That 9-22 record when trailing after the first quarter at home stuns me. EDIT: Is that just for this season, or am I reading it wrong? We've lost 13 times each at home and on the road, so I guess that "9-22" can't refer to wins and losses.

    Never mind. I'll just go off some place and be confused.
     
  15. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Those stats proved my points.

    By quarter the biggest spread is in the 4th quarter with the Pistons being plus 2.0 due to the increased defensive effort. It would be interesting to see the shooting percentages and turnovers by quarter, Pistons and their opponents.

    The stats also show that the Pistons are ahead at the end of the 1st quarter as often as they are behind.

    :hoops:
     
  16. MainManJoeD

    MainManJoeD First Round Draft Pick

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    Until the NBA stops this insane practice of going 82, followed by three months of playoffs, your going to get teams resting during the regular season. As we learned the hard way last year, putting it all on the line during the regular season is just stupid. Just enough to win, baby!

    Now a separate/ related issue is the playoff personality of this team. That I hate. The back against the wall syndrome is just sick and pathetic. If they do it again this year, honestly, I'll have a hard time remaining a Pistons fan. The reason they lost to SA in '05 was not a blown cover by RWallace, but going down 0-2 to the Spurs, because of lack of effort. Your just not going to win 4-5 against the Spurs.
     
  17. Pistonchickforever

    Pistonchickforever First Round Draft Pick

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    I can't understand the harsh so-called logic of this writer. As others have mentioned, you cannot expect a team to go ALL out for 48 minutes of a regular season game. Granted the first quarter was just awful basketball, but the bench came in and executed beautifully giving the spark needed to get the team going. These guys need to expend all of their energy to finish out games in the second half <4th quarter> which was exactly what they did against the Heat. They did what they had to, win. We're not talking about a game with a lucky shot ending, while the previous 3 quarters were horribly executed ball. I can agree that JWill <and others> weren't defended as tough as they should have been throughout the game, but when it was truly needed, our defense came through to close it out.
     
  18. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    It was "truly needed" against the Bulls too, and it didn't happen.

    Waiting until it was "truly needed" against the Cavs last year sucked the life out of the team's playoff chances.

    Bottom line, the other guys in the NBA are pretty good too. You don't always get to pick your spots for a big run. But the guys are very comfortable thinking otherwise.
     
  19. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Well said.
     
  20. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I have no data to back this up, but it seems to me that the Pistons play better when they start a game slow. The occasional game when they start out hot, they often go into a slide and can't stop the bleeding.
     

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