So...(ugh)...this is our team:

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by blueadams, Dec 10, 2011.

  1. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    For better or worse, this is our team for the shortened 2011-2012 season (there's about a 1% chance Joe-D lets Stuckey walk, so I went ahead and penciled him in):

    C: G. Monroe(3.0-5.5mil, 4yrs), B. Wallace(2.2mil, 1yr), V. Macklin(*0.8mil, 2yrs)
    PF: J. Jerebko(4.5mil, 4yrs), C. Villanueva(7.5-8.6mil, 3yrs), J. Maxiel(5.0mil, 2yrs)
    SF: T. Prince(6.75mil, 4yrs), A. Daye(1.9-4.1mil, 3yrs)
    SG: R. Stuckey(*8.0mil, 4yrs), B. Gordon(11.6-13.2mil, 3yrs)
    PG: B. Knight(*3.0mil, 5yrs), W. Bynum(3.5mil, 2yrs)

    R. Hamilton(*6.4mil, 2yrs), T. White(*0.4mil, 1yr)

    Estimated 2011-2012 Salary Cap: 58.0 mil
    Estimated 2011-2012 Team Salary: 64.6 mil
    Estimated 2011-2012 Salary Cap Space: -6.6 mil

    There's still a lot we don't know salary-cap wise; but, to say the least, our future free agent acquisition prospects look dim. I'm making some rough estimates here, but the totals should be at least somewhat accurate. I'm guessing that about 50% of Rip Hamilton and Terrico White's contracts are going to count against our cap. I'm guessing that Brandon Knight and Vernon Macklin's contracts are going to be similar to comprable 2010 draft picks Greg Monroe and Terrico White. And I'm guessing that Rodney Stuckey's going to be resigned at about (a predicted) 7-9 mil per season. So, it looks like we're actually going to be 6.6 mil OVER the salary cap this off-season; meaning that the MLE is all we'll have to work with.

    .....How about next off-season!? (I'm just going to assume/hope that the salary cap rises enough to negate the annual raises of players like Gordon, Villanueva, Monroe and Daye). It doesn't look much better. Even if we use our amnesty clause on Charlie Villanueva, we'll probably still be about 0.5 mil over the salary cap next off season (- 7.5 mil for Charlie Villanueva, - 2.2 mil for Ben Wallace, - 0.4 mil for Terrico White, + about 4.0 mil for draft picks.....total of - 6.1 mil, and we'd be about 6.6 mil above the salary cap to begin with). So, again, the MLE is all we'll have to work with.

    .....How about the next off-season!? Again, it doesn't look much better. Even if we don't use our MLE this year or next year (which is highly unlikely), we're only going to be 4.8 mil under the salary cap (- 5.0 mil for Jason Maxiel, - 3.5 mil for Will Bynum, - 0.8 mil for Vernon Macklin, + about 4.0 mil for draft picks.....total of - 5.3 mil, and we'd be about 0.5 mil above the salary cap to begin with). So, yet again, the MLE is basically all we'll have to work with.

    ......The next off-season Ben Gordon's significant contract will come off the book, but we're talking about the 2014-2015 season there!! The morale of the story is to ABANDON any hope of free agents coming in to save the franchise. The MLE is basically all we're going to have to use over the next three off-seasons, and that can only bring in so much. Even if all we had was salary cap space, the city of Detroit is nowhere close to becoming a big time free agent destination anyways (ala Miami, New York, LA, etc.). The morale of the story is that if this rebuilding process is going to happen...it's going to be done through wily drafting and trading.

    So, what does this team have, and what does this team need.

    C: *???*
    PF: G. Monroe
    SF: J. Jerebko/A. Daye, T. Prince
    SG: R. Stuckey, B. Gordon
    PG: B. Knight

    .....#1) We've got Greg Monroe. He's a very solid young - and improving - big man. I'd say he's most definitely good enough to be a starter on a championship team. But I still think we need to add an elite big man next to him. Let's start off with his weaknesses. Defensively, he's just not that big or athletic. He works his butt off, but he's never going to be an elite post defender. He's never going to be a great shot-blocker or rebounder. But he's always going to be at least solid in those areas. He's not going to be a 'negative' in those areas. But you all saw how horrific our post defense was with him as the leading man last year. Offensively, again, he's very solid. But he's never going to be a go-to scorer. He's never going to be a Tim Duncan-type presence. Maybe a Brook Lopez-type presence, hopefully. He's a good passer from the high post, allegedly, so that's good. He's at least somewhat crafty with the ball down low. He's good enough to make the easy buckets you need him to. But he's definitely not a guy you really plan on going down low to. He just doesn't have the low post game, and he's not really much of a shooter yet. He's got some tools, and he's always improving. But expecting him to be your #1 option down low, IMO, is expecting to not be a championship winning team. IMO, we need to add another elite big man. We need a guy that is a very good low-post scorer. We need a guy that is a very good interior defender. All in one. Very hard to find. But still very essential for us to ever be serious contenders. Gotta hope someone that fits the bill is available in the draft. Gotta hope that we can maneuver to get him.

    .....#2) We've got Brandon Knight. It's all a dream at this point. Hopefully he will fall somewhere in between the spectrun of Derrick Rose-John Wall-Tyreke Evans. He's big and athletic enough to be a plus defender, and it sounds like he's got the work ethic and intelligence to make that happen. Offensively, he's supposed to be a good shooter, a good enough distributor in time, and a threat to take it to the hole. But it's all fool's gold at this point. We'll have to wait and see...and pray.

    .....#3) We've got Rodney Stuckey. For all his flaws, this guy is still very young and chalk full of potential. He's enormous and athletic. There's no reason he shouldn't be a plus defender. Hopefully he responds well to Lawrence Frank's emphasis on that end. Offensively, it appears he's never going to be a plus shooter. But man, can he take it to the hole. I wish he did it more often. Outside of LeBron and Wade, no one takes it to the rack more effectively than him. His only real problem is finishing - and getting calls. That's something that can be improved, and I hope it does. He's not intelligent and/or instinctual enough to run the point (at least not full-time). But with Knight running the show - hopefully at a faster pace, which suits Rodney, he could be very effective taking it to the rim in the half-court offense, and especially on the break.

    .....#4) We've got a lot of solid role players. Jonas Jerebko. A very solid role player. Works his butt off. Does all the small things well. Can play three positions effectively. Can match up against a lot of great players. Can pick things up for your ball club emotionally. And has a little bit of offensive talent to boot. In an ideal world we'd be able to add an elite big man and wing through the draft, and he could be a bench player. But this isn't an ideal world is it? Is he solid enough to be the fifth starter on a championship team if we get a REAL-DEAL stud big man? - you betcha. Ben Gordon. An absolutely awful defender. Maybe the worst defensive guard in the entire league. But a very explosive offensive player. He can't start. But, if used right, he can come off the bench and pick up your offense in meaningful games. Austin Daye. When you look at this guy, tools-wise, there's really not much he doesn't have going for him that Kevin Durant does. Potential's sky-high. Always has been. But probably will never be reached. Will his shot ever start falling with consistency? Will he ever start being as assertive as he needs to be? Guy's probably never going to reach his full potential...and he's never going to be a good enough defender to guard anyone over 200lbs...so he'll probably never be a starter, but he's definitely worth waiting to see on. Tayshaun Prince. He's here. Get used to it I guess. He's average to below average as a starter at the three. He's certainly not improving. I'm really, really, really hoping that we can somehow land a stud three in the draft. The real go-to scorer that we've never had. It's hard enough to find a stud big man in the draft, let alone a stud big man and a stud wing though. Hopefully we can get at least one of the two. Pray that we can get both. In the event that we can't get both, Jonas Jerebko probably slides into the starting lineup to replace either. And if Daye never scratches his very high ceiling, Prince plays a valuable role on the team as a sixth man.

    So...basically, more than anything, we need a STUD BIG MAN in the draft. The answer to our prayers, IMO, is UCONN freshman center ANDRE DRUMMOND. He's probably going to be the #1 overall pick in the draft. If we ever want to be championship contenders again - and we're smart/patient enough - we'll intentionally tank this season. Lose as many games as possible. Easy enough, right? Pull all your starters in the 4th quarter if you need to. Trade whatever you must if you get unlucky in the lottery. If there ever was a season to do it, it'd be this one. This is the new blueprint for how you build a small-market contender. You tank. You get the #1 overall pick. You get a stud. You make him happy enough to want to stay. We've already got most of, if not all of, the exterior pieces in place. Just this one left to go.
    BillLaimbeer and Rocastle like this.
  2. Rocastle

    Rocastle Bench Warmer

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    You didn't mention trades, Tayshaun at least could be a good trade piece in the next two years with his reasonable contract?

    Also, a potential Charlie V amnesty if he doesn't up his game this year?
  3. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    Well...since we're playing this year to see what the roster can produce, than I think we should let Stuckey sign elsewhere, and just go with the hand we've been dealt. We are certainly not gonna win anything with him on the roster...so we might as well save the dough for future use..........
  4. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    I think we are a stud SF or PF away from having a team that grow and develop their way to legit contenders. I LOVE JJ, but I think he's more of an energy guy off the bench (I could be wrong) who backs up both forward positions.
  5. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    What a second. Next year the NBA cap may be around say $60 M. As a result of Rip's buyout we might be about $7 Mill under the cap. If you amnesty CV, we're now $15 Mill under the cap, enough to possibly entice Kevin Love? A front court consisting of Daye, JJ, Monroe and Love seems pretty formidable to me. Or, maybe Kevin Love does the whole trade me HERE or else thing; they just drafted a PF with the #2 pick, maybe they know he's as good as gone, we could use that to our advantage. We could trade for Love knowing full well that he won't sign with an extension, maybe he finds out that he likes being a Piston, maybe we can use him in a S&T, at worst it sheds us of Chuck's contract.

    To me this has to be a make or break season for Chuck, he either becomes more than a 6'11" chucker or we have to go our separate ways.
  6. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Yessir.
  7. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    A moment of silence for the author of the aforementioned phrase...........................................RIP,
  8. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    1) We shopped Tayshaun like crazy last season. The best offer we got was a late first round pick from the Mavs. And the thing that made Tay valuable in a trade was his expiring contract. Now he's guaranteed for 4 seasons and regressing with each year. Think we're going to be able to get anything valuable for him?

    2) I actually included a Charlie V amnesty clause in my numbers. Still isn't going to free up enough cap space for us to sign anyone (other than with the MLE) in the next two off-seasons.
  9. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    Theres about a 1% chance Joe-D let's Stuckey walk. He still loves him to death. He's still young. He's still got a lot of potential. He can be a starter - not a star - on a championship team. Ideally, I'd like to see us just match whatever contract he gets with a one year deal and see how he does with Frank, as opposed to locking him up long term. But I kind of doubt Joe-D feels the same.
  10. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    More or less agree. Need a real-deal STUD though. Need to tank this season.
  11. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    That math doesn't add up. #1) Probably half of Rip's remaining contract is going to count against the cap for the next two years. #2) Ben Gordon, Charlie Villanueva (if we keep him), Austin Daye and Greg Monroe all get significant annual raises that you aren't accounting for. #3) Probably about 4 million in rookie contracts will be added next season. #4) GIVE UP YOUR DREAMS OF A BIG TIME FREE AGENT WANTING TO COME HERE. Even if we had the cap space to sign Love, which we won't, he wouldn't come here. Why would he? Why would LeBron? Why would Dirk? Why would Wade? Why would Mare? Why would Bosh? Why would Melo? Why would Paul? Why would Dwight? If he was from Michigan and loved it here....MAYBE...but he's from Cali.
  12. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    It sounds like Frank is really going to emphasize defense...which means Charlie V will likely have no role here.
  13. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    it's been reported that we're only going to need to pay Rip 4mil a season for the next two seasons. I had him penciled in at 6.4mil a season. So add 2.4mil in salary cap space to both seasons. Still not significant of a number to make a difference.
  14. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Ben Gordon is a defensive liability too.
  15. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Every coach always says they are going to "emphasize defense", with the exception of Dantoni.
  16. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Ha! Very true... and maybe Wayne Fontes.
  17. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    I wouldn't expect Tay to regress in his game. The way he plays he could stay on the court into his late 30's without any issues.
    Another thing, even with the cap available, not sure the players are eager to come play for Pistons, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.
  18. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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  19. max

    max All-Star

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    Given past losing seasons, the main guys we can get are players looking for starting roles or simply because we outbid the competition. Thats how we got Ben Wallace.
  20. S.J.

    S.J. All-Star Forum Donor

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    Send Charlie V to the D-league right now.

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