Sour Note : You Got What You Wanted

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Nov 16, 2006.

  1. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Yes, the Pistons are starting to show something. Rip will be one of my most favorite players forever and he seems to be widening his talent range even more. Sheed looked really into it and I hope he keeps that attitude. Maybe the 'Sheed Rule' will wind up helping him, if it makes him concentrate more on his game, rather than the histrionics. He can be a very devastating player when he is really into it.

    CB looked quite good, too, and it is good to have a point who is really into getting everyone involved. Not many teams have that.

    Things are looking up; now if Laimbeer was coaching. Oh, well. Can't have everything. Maybe the assistants will flavor the game plans a little.
     
  2. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    I've already had to make this point with several people prior to your comment.

    I don't care what Ben's individual numbers are with the Bulls this year.

    I DON'T CARE.


    The Bulls don't have our roster.

    The bulls didn't have our championship.

    The Bull's don't have the best coach in the league and...

    The Bulls didn't have Ben Wallace build the defense and the character of their team for the previous 6 years.

    THE PISTONS will suffer without Ben Wallace. I never said the Bulls will win the title WITH Ben Wallace.

    My concern for Ben Wallace exists SOLELY within the context of his influence on THIS BASKETBALL TEAM.

    Flip Saunders system put Ben Wallace in a very poor position. Any coach that insists on using a player in a way that is detrimental to his strengths can expect to see a decline in performance (funny how none of you seem to miss grasping this concept when LB played Williamson at the PF).

    I really wish people would stop trying to use his stats this season in CHI to justify him not playing in DET. Apples and Oranges people. Apples and Oranges.
     
  3. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I don't think the difference is that substantial. A multiple defensive player of the year, multiple all-star and nba champion shouldn't need the perfect situation to excel.
    Many other great players have gone into different situations with different teams and performed as they had in the past.

    Why is it apples and oranges? He brings the intangibles, effort and hustle. You don't need to run specific plays for that kind of stuff.
     
  4. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    You do if your gameplan consists of having 4 of your 5 players outside of the paint 80% of the time.
     
  5. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Supposedly, Ben is trying to suggest to Skiles that the offense needs to come through PJ Brown and Ben in the post more... so they can draw the D and at least pass out of it. Similar to what he was frustrated with in Detroit. Apparently, even coaches that appreciate his skills can't get themselves to put the ball in his hands.
     
  6. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I think Ben misses us just as much as we miss him.

    Looking at the stats from the bulls games, Ben is playing under 30 minutes a game. Last night he missed googobs of free throws.

    I think Skiles will use the same tactics as Flip when game (s) are on the line. He will bench Ben just for the sake of having someone in there who can shoot the free throws.

    Thier record speaks for itself, they are struggling to find continuity just like us.
     
  7. max

    max All-Star

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    Looks like this thread is starting to touch on the real question.

    Was it a lose-lose for both teams? If Chic had not made that huge offer then Dumars and Ben would have jockyed around for a couple of weeks, similiar to Tay and Sheed, and a deal would have been done. Chic loses Chandler and has paid for a guy that is not a really good fit for them.

    I am now trying to look to the future because there is nothing that can be done about it now. It would be easier if Mohammed was not sucking ( I mean adjusting ) so bad.
     
  8. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Comparing Ben to Nazr so far:

    Ben 34.7 mpg, 5.2 pts, 9.4 reb, 1.56 blk
    Nazr 20.3 mpg, 6.9 pts, 6.6 reb, 1.50 blk

    To compare over equal minutes, here are 48 minute-stats:

    Ben: 7.2 pts, 13.1 reb, 2.15 blk
    Nazr: 16.3 pts, 15.6 reb, 2.94 blk

    Nazr is certainly no Ben on defense, but his numbers certainly look pretty good compared to Ben.
     
  9. max

    max All-Star

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    Study Mohammed in the next game and let me know what your think. He has been such a defensive liability that Flip has been pulling him early for Dale Davis.
     
  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    According to 82games, Ben is a -24. He might possibly be the worst starter (plus, minus wise) in the NBA right now.
     
  11. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Believe me, I don't want to see Nazr for more than 20 minutes per game. He has a role. Flip has been going small ball down the stretch the last few games.
     
  12. max

    max All-Star

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    Yanking him early in the 1st for Davis has really been helping the 1st quarters for the past 2 games.

    I have to think that Mohammed will only get better though. There was an article at det talking about how a lot of his problems are with miscommunication. Until they get it figured out its nice to have someone like Davis to help out. Too bad Flip did not play him last year.
     
  13. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I like Davis. I hope he plays more.

    Yesterday when they yanked Nazr, the Rockets went on a 20-1 run.
     
  14. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    I feel you poking me, sir.....I.....must.............resist.....:boink:
     
  15. aurora

    aurora Bench Warmer

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    :lame:
     
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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  17. max

    max All-Star

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    When you are 3-7 there is not going to be a lot of positive things happening in the stat line.

    I saw that Bulls game last night and Ben did grab a few offensive boards in crunch time, no Bull could make a shot. They don't seem to use him at all in the offense. Almost using him the same way as their championship team used Rodman. Set screens and rebound the ball.

    They have a lot of deficiencies. Skiles was saying they need 4 or 5 guys to have good games. Not much of an inside game at all. I see them as another bubble season, at or just over .500. Not sure how that is going to sit with the fans after all the hype.
     
  18. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    I agree, max, I saw most of the game as well. Bulls looked pretty crappy. And the Lakers didn't even look that much better than when they got their butts kicked by the Pistons.
     
  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Pistons' leadership a problem

    The Detroit Pistons have problems defensively, which we all expected when Ben Wallace left. But there's an even greater void that I'm not sure this team is up to filling -- his leadership.

     
  20. Jackattaq

    Jackattaq First Round Draft Pick

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    I just love how you can use this argument "for Ben's sake" but when it comes to Carlos Delfino or Darko's progress, the only thing that matters is statistics instead of growing and improving through ON COURT EXPERIENCE.

    Yeah, I get it now, Ben's numbers mean nothing, but if Delfino is on the court for 12 minutes and gets only 2 rebs and 2 asts with a steal, he must have sucked because he was 1-4 shooting corner 3pters.

    Flip has yet to recognize that PUTTING DELFINO in the corner to just shoot 3's isn't the best way to utilize him, but whenever Delfino struggles it's his fault, right?

    Am I getting this right?
     

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