Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by lpgrl26, Apr 27, 2009.
It can also be argued that neither had noticeable issues until Flip got here.
The Billups we watched the last two years was also injured in the post-season. This is something we won't agree in; in terms of what CB you would have seen this year and whether or not the trade caused this "resurgence".
My thing is that we can keep getting rid of players that we deem responsible for a specific/mentality or effort, but until we replace what we lost with LB, we are just going in circles.
You and I are on the same page with this.
My 2 cents. We should stop blaming everything on Flip. He got us to the ECF but the players could not close the deal.
If LB would have stayed he would have destroyed this team - even more than it has been. Think Sixers here. But we will never know because he left when he was on top. Maybe thats the way he planned it all along.
I don't know, my man...I would say it's the other way around...Players good enough on their own for ECF...Flip couldn't close the deal and get any more out of them...that's what a coach should do.
Too pissed to read the whole thread. Just my 2 cents: This article is probably BS. Cleveland writers suck and I still hate the Cavs and their copycat ways.
Players execute not coach. Pleas don't tell me "but players did not know what to do". They were very experienced and veteran team, not some sort boyscout team. In Denver Billups dictates everything.
I have read many stupid things, but nothing more stupid then this..
Rasheed Wallace Was Cancered by Allen Iverson | Bleacher Report
Rasheed Wallace never wanted a buyout
Rasheed Wallace never wanted a buyout | detnews.com | The Detroit News
edited to add;
from the Sheed article;
I pray this doesn't happen.
Thanks, Low. I was just starting high school when the Bad Boys era came to an end, is that when things began with Isiah?
Really? LB's been gone 4 long years. Haven't made the Finals since. Snuck into the playoffs sub .500 and got swept first round this season. No lottery ticket. How could this team be any worse?
If Wallace wants to come back, I am all for it. Likely the contract would have to be smaller and the role reduced.
I think it would have been hilarious if Sheed would have reprised that post game presser in this year's playoffs by simply repeating:
"...One team played hard."
Yeah...right after he retired, he was all set to take a front office position (a la Joe D) and then *poof* he was gone and all of a sudden, he's looking to take over as GM in Toronto. Then in what would become typical Pistons fashion, the newspapers began to show up with all sorts of little articles suggesting what was wrong with Zeke and why he couldn't be allowed to stick around and all the 'little things' he did to sabotage his own ascension within the franchise...same stuff you see today when guys are broomed out of town, but it was new back then.
Players execute what?
.....the GAMEPLAN put in place by THE COACH.
I don't know why I keep having to explain this. The proof is already there. Great coach, this team wins the title. Average coach, they get to the ECF repeatedly and fail. Crap coach, this season happens. By your reasoning, as long as you have enough good players you could hire one of the Fry Guys to coach and they'd still win a title...not gonna happen. I don't understand why you seem to think that within one year, all the players we had became crap and we could make the finals and go seven games with the "other" best team in the league one year, then all our players are terrible the next year and that's why we don't win....it makes no sense. The only major change from '05 to '06 was hiring Flip. The argument proves itself.
For this reason alone I will miss Sheed. He was great at provided sound bites and a pleasure to watch when he wasn't gettin' T'd up at a crucial point in a big game. I've turned from a Sheed supporter to a critic in these past couple of seasons but not because he's not capable anymore. In fact, it's the opposite. I think he's been very capable and just not come through. Sure his stats have been consistant as a Piston but when we acquired him in 04 we needed him to be part of a group. We had so many complimentary talents that he didn't need to be "the man". This past year or two as the team has declined is when we needed him to bring that talent up a notch. I feel he was one of the first to throw in the towel. It happened against Cleveland in 07 (ECF), Boston in 08 (ECF) and Cleveland again in 09 (1st rd).
In hind sight we should probably thank the good lord that Zeke wasn't hired in the front office back then. We never would have dug ourselves outta the depths we sunk to post-Bad Boy era. Zeke is probably my favorite Piston on the court but front office work just ain't his forte.
This sums it up completely for me.
Words cannot express how disgusted and frustrated I am with how such a unique collection of players fell short of its potential all because management did not recognize just how critical the coaching position is to victory. If your coach is not Hall of Fame caliber, you won't win the BIG one. Period. There is nothing historically to prove otherwise.
I'm sorry, but a guy that drafts Damon Stoudamire, Tracy McGrady, and Marcus Camby and turns and expansion team into a playoff team is not a bad GM in my book.
In the Knicks case...they had the oldest AND most expensive roster in the league before Thomas arrived. Not to mention they were already at the bottom of the conference. Zeke comes in and does what no one thought was possible when he took the job, he turned they're old decrepid roster into a young talented roster. The problem is, all the young talent he rolled the dice on had poor attitudes and couldn't play in a great team environment if their lives depended on it. So, he came up short on that one, but he did more or less help pull that team out of the salary cap hell they were in with all those senior citizens on their roster. He took a chance on some young guys with talent and got burned. Hell, you could say that about Joe D in some cases.
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