Starting 5 for 2010-11

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by chillfan23, Jul 19, 2010.

  1. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Why do you think that? CV supposedly is going to be better this season. White should be ok defensively, lets see. Gordon has plenty of height at least to guard point guards. Summers is a solid enough defender. Monroe has a ton of length.

    Also, if they can't do the job, hey, lots of guys playing behind them who would just love to step in and take minutes from the starters.
  2. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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  3. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Running rotation:

    Start Stuckey, White, Daye, Summers, Monroe

    2nd unit: Bynum, Gordon, Tay, JJ, JMAX

    also rans: TMAC, Ben Wallace, CV, Wilcox, Rip

    Get them into foul trouble rotation (specifically be attacking the basket):

    Start: Stuckey, Gordon, TMAC, JMAX, Monroe

    2nd unit: Bynum, Daye, Tay, CV, Wilcox

    rest: Ben Wallace, Rip, JJ, Summers, White

    Defensive rotation:

    Start: Stuckey, Rip, Tay, Summers, Ben Wallace

    2nd unit: Bynum, White, TMAC, JMAX, Monroe

    other: JJ, Gordon, CV, Daye, Wilcox

    Hybrid (in 2 of 3 or better) First, I will rank the players, based on 2 points if starter, 1 point if sub, and 0 points if neither, for each criteria (defense, running, getting them into foul trouble.)

    Stuckey 6
    Bynum 3
    White 3
    Daye 3
    Summers 4
    Monroe 5
    Gordon 3
    Tay 4
    JJ 1
    JMAX 4
    TMAC 3
    Ben Wallace 2
    CV 1
    Wilcox 1
    Rip 2

    The 5 guys with 1's or 2's for a score are Ben Wallace, JJ, CV, Rip, and Wilcox. Of these, the most significant "2" is Ben Wallace with his defense - which goes off the charts on any rating system. But hey, in this system, he is left out. Note, if I added a scoring category, he still gets left out.

    So, to choose from for the starters and 2nd unit: Stuckey, Bynum, White, Daye, TMAC, Gordon, JMAX, Monroe, Summers, Tay

    Goal, keep an attacking game all game long, always a lot of running, always enough defense. But its impossible, not enough bigs, so I am going to pick on Bynum here, and let Ben Wallace play.

    Start: Stuckey, White, TMAC, Monroe, Ben Wallace

    2nd unit: Gordon, Daye, Tay, Summers, JMAX

    left out: Bynum, Rip, JJ, CV, Wilcox

    Note, Bynum (extra point guard) and CV (extra big) would have to be the two guys dressed here, leaving Rip, JJ, and Wilcox in street clothes.

    If Rip is allowed to dress, then he has to do two things to remain dressed the next game: on fast breaks, finish at the basket, not with a jumper. And 2nd, attack the basket, don't even think about the "take all shot clock using picks to get free for a jumper" game. White and Daye would be in direct competition with each other as to who gives up minutes to Rip, or who keeps their minutes.

    Gordon had better be able to handle the point guard duties in the 2nd unit. Bynum is there wanting those minutes.

    CV would play, subbing for any of the bigs, and sometimes Tay, when more scoring punch is needed. (Summers would go to small forward if CV subs for Tay) This would keep all bigs on their toes trying to keep their minutes.

    Daye, Summers, White, and TMAC also have to worry about JJ wanting their minutes. If JJ gets White's minutes, the starting unit becomes Stuckey, TMAC, JJ, Monroe, Ben Wallace. If JJ takes Daye's minutes in that 2nd unit, it becomes Gordon, Tay, JJ, Summers, JMAX. Extra rebounding at the small forward position just might mean trouble for guys wanting to fend off minutes for JJ.
  4. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    A rotation to avoid - simply because the coach has no ability to follow a game plan. Otherwise, it might work great.

    Start Stuckey, Rip, Tay, JMAX, Ben Wallace.

    Bench: Gordon, Daye, TMAC, CV, Monroe.

    This seems to leave out Summers, JJ, White, Wilcox, Bynum. For now we will assume Wilcox can't play. (while hoping otherwise.)

    But what if we had a coach who could follow a game plan, and keep minutes down for some of his players. Like TMAC, Ben Wallace, Rip, Tay. JMAX also has shown that playing too much makes him worse. And Stuckey is not the most experienced point guard in the world, so optimize his use by keeping the number of plays per game down. Redundant, but I will briefly go over why some of these guys need their minutes kept down. Rip, his game involves a ton of running - let him keep something in the tank for the playoffs. Tay and TMAC, both coming off injuries. Ben, just getting old.

    So, above, you got a basic rotation, starting with a lot of defense, and having a real scoring punch off the bench. But we want to keep these guys productive all season long, and into the playoffs.

    Start by having the minutes split 30 / 18, starting unit vs. 2nd unit. Already, you have reduced the possibility of overusing people. Next, simply give minutes in that starting unit to others. Ben Wallace can sit games or halves at least, allowing Summers to get some time at power forward. JMAX can easily give up 5 minutes a game to Summers. Target Summers to get 1000 NBA minutes this year, and actually do it. Don't just plan to do it - actually do it.

    Next, JJ can play as a sub, in place of TMAC, at small forward, the position he helps most at - since a strong rebounder at small forward is always a plus. Also, JJ can take some of Daye's minutes in the second unit, moving TMAC to shooting guard on occasion. Sitting Rip some puts Tay at shooting guard here and there with JJ at small forward. Again, for JJ, target 1000 NBA minutes, and stick to it.

    Bynum is kept sharp simply by letting him play about every 4th game in place of Stuckey - or maybe just a half here and there. Early in the season, he may have to step in for Gordon - until Gordon learns to handle the position well. (and if not - Gordon plays less.)

    Finally, White should get some minutes this year, and be given at least a shot at backup point guard minutes. Another shooting guard is probably not all that needed around these parts at the moment. At a minimum, a goal of 500 development minutes should be slated in for the guy, starting early in the season. No icing him for most of the season before he gets floor time.
  5. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Lee, who would you rather have... Kuester or Carlisle?
  6. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Carlisle. And I did not like Carlisle much - but he could do some things well. Kuester on the other hand can't carry out his own plans even during a game - which makes whatever knowledge he may have useless.
  7. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Have Gordon, ankle, Rip, ankle, and Tay, back, just sit out until January 1.
    Wilcox, back, can sit with them, trying to ensure the back is actually ready to play.

    This leaves 11 guys, use all of them in a rotation, until January 1. At that time, slowly start playing the four guys sitting out the first part of the season, with a competition to see who keeps their minutes.

    To start the season: Start: Stuckey, Daye, TMAC / JJ, JMAX, Monroe

    2nd unit: Bynum, White, Summers / JJ, CV, Ben Wallace

    JJ and Summers also get additional minutes by occasionally moving TMAC to shooting guard, or by replacing JMAX's or CV's minutes.
  8. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Kuester hasn't had the chance to coach with a competitive, healthy roster yet. Perhaps this year we'll have more of a fair opportunity to evaluate him.
  9. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Not true. Kuester chose, with a full roster available, to play Rip in garbage time of game one. Rip got injured in meaningless garbage time. Kuester, down just one player in the next two games, chose to play Tay 38 minutes per game, even though it was the beginning of the season, and these two games were the 2nd and 3rd of a set of 3 games in 4 nights. Very poor choices.

    Further, thruout the season, instead of playing healthy players, Kuester chose to play guys coming off injury with no business playing yet.

    Futher, Kuester, well before camp ended, went to his playoff rotation. Way too early for that. Horrible coaching, full roster or not.
  10. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    If the doctors and trainers tell the coach that a guy is healthy and available, you can't blame the coach for playing a guy that is suited up for the game. If has no business playing yet, he shouldn't be in uniform.
  11. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Here is a crazy concept, have Rip and Gordon compete for who gets the starting shooting guard role, while Daye and TMAC compete for backup minutes there.

    Otherwise, the rotation is point guard: Stuckey, Bynum

    Small forward: Tay, JJ

    Power forward: CV, Monroe

    Center: Ben Wallace, JMAX

    Left out of discussion: White, Summers, Wilcox

    Monitor the two starting units for who has best plus minus, ditto for the two sub units.

    After a month of so of this, and a trend has possibly emerged, whoever lost the starting shooting guard spot, he has to compete with the guy who won the backup shooting guard spot.

    lets say its December 5th now, about, and what emerged is this:

    Starters: Stuckey, Rip, Tay, CV, Ben Wallace

    2nd unit: Bynum, TMAC, JJ, Monroe, JMAX

    Gordon and Daye now try for different jobs. Daye challenges JJ for small forward minutes, while Gordon competes with Bynum for backup point minutes.

    January 5th comes around, and we now have:

    Starters: Stuckey, Rip, Tay, CV, Ben Wallace

    2nd unit: Gordon, TMAC, Daye, Monroe, JMAX

    Now let Summers compete with Daye at small forward, while White competes with Gordon at point guard.

    Feb 5 comes around, and we now have:

    Starters: Stuckey, Rip, Tay, CV, Ben Wallace

    2nd unit: White, TMAC, Daye, Monroe, JMAX

    Ben Wallace plays lightly in February, letting Wilcox gear his game up.

    March, and April, rotation stays as it will be in the playoffs. Ben Wallace has had a breather, nobody has been overplayed too badly as the playoffs start.
  12. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    It's not so crazy and as-a-matter-of-fact, very pragmatic. Add the beginning for Rip and there you have it.

    You are such a sly fox.
  13. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Well, is there any rotation that would work with just the old guys? And maybe 3 of the young guys, between White, Monroe, Daye, JJ, and Summers?

    Of course, Tay, CV, Gordon, Stuckey, Bynum, JMAX are all hardly old.

    Wilcox and Rip ain't that old either. Really, only Ben Wallace is old in NBA terms.

    The world may never know.

    On a different note. Lets say we still had Afflalo, Amir, and we resigned Sheed. Heck, lets say we even got Delfino somehow back on the roster. And Billups too.

    Could we field any team from our current roster that would beat:

    Billups, Afflalo, Delfino, Amir, and Sheed in a five on five? Five guys all given away for nothing in value in return. I doubt it.

    Which five of our current players would we drop to have these five guys back?

    My list: Gordon, CV, Wilcox, JJ, Tay.

    Since this is my list, here is a rotation based on the other ten guys:

    Start: Stuckey, White, Daye, JMAX, Monroe

    2nd unit: Bynum, Rip, TMAC, Summers, Ben Wallace
  14. Mossberg

    Mossberg Bench Warmer 3x Fantasy Champion

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  15. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    I don't get Joe, what this team needs is a veteran SG.
  16. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Right on.
  17. Mossberg

    Mossberg Bench Warmer 3x Fantasy Champion

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    and a dynamic SF that can play SG if necessary.
  18. Mossberg

    Mossberg Bench Warmer 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Am I the only one sensing some for-sure future turmoil in the locker room over playing time?
  19. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I'd love that. Separate the wheat from the chaff.
  20. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Don't they have almost the same exact team back from last year?

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