Starting 5 for 2010-11

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by chillfan23, Jul 19, 2010.

  1. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Package the ton of role players on this team for someone good and find a GM dumb enough to do that. This is Joe's job. He made the mess, he has to clean it up. I wonder if there is any team in the NBA other than the Pistons that consists solely of role players?
     
  2. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Gordon has a lot of talent. In the progression to a good point guard, 1)First you got to be able to take your guy off the dribble 2) Before that, usually, you got to be able to shoot out on the perimeter so they will play up on you, so you have more ability to drive past your guy 3) Next, you got to be able to finish your drives once you do get to the basket 4) Now you got to learn how to do the first few steps while keeping your head up, looking to pass the ball if your path to the basket is blocked effectively 5) Then, finally, you got to be good at making those passes, knowing when to make them, vs. when to score yourself. Of course, there is the orchestrating of the offense, initiating plays, ensuring everyone is in position, both for the play at hand, and the transition to defense after a shot is made. (including who rebounds vs. who scatters back)

    Ben Gordon can shoot. He can take his guy off the dribble. He can finish. He can do all this while keeping his head up. He is a long way toward being a point guard along those lines. On the other stuff, hey, I have not seen Ben Gordon play point enough to say much, but I do know we hardly can point to anyone else on the team who has all that down any better than Gordon really, while none of the other candidates have the shooting, driving, and finishing while keeping their head up part down.

    The other part of being a point - a huge part indeed, is being able to defend the opposing point guard - or if not that, being able to adequately defend the opposing shooting guard if perhaps you have a shooting guard who can guard the point. Stuckey is a much better defender than Gordon or Bynum. Gordon and Bynum I don't see too far apart on D, except Gordon just is a bit taller - and that does help perimeter D. Bynum has better footwork on D vs. Gordon, but that only goes so far unless its truly exceptional, and for Bynum, its not. (Though, hey, he does seem to have been set back in that department since the ankle injury - he could improve yet - I ain't counting him out yet.

    On this team, we have a shooting guard who can indeed guard most point guards. Getting on the old side these days, but Rip Hamilton is capable of guarding a hot shooting point guard to help cool him off. So, if Gordon can manage to guard either opposing guard, Rip can guard the other.

    The best part about making Gordon our starting point - it puts Stuckey as our backup point - and for that, Stuckey is quite adequate.
     
  3. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Look at the bold in Lee's quote below

    #1: Stuckey AND Bynum can do. #2: STuckey AND Bynum can do that out to 18feet, but Bynum does it better. #3: Bynum can, Stuckey needs improvement. #4: Bynum yes, Stuckey? NOPE! #5: Bynum yes, Stuckey-NOPE! BOLD PRINT: NEITHER!!! But Bynum does it better than Stuckey, but at this juncture it's the lesser of 2 evils in that department. Gordon is not and can not play the point, it's a disaster waiting to happen.

    Truer words have never been spoken.
     
  4. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Good post. BenG needs to get more minutes and if he has to take over some PG than so be it. Stuckey is a better ball handler, but all other comparisons in relationship to Stuckey stop there.
     
  5. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    If Dumars could somehow make a trade to land a true PG, I think the team would be fun to watch. All of the players (those that remained, at least) would benefit.
     
  6. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Lets look at a half circle from the basket. Area = 1/2 pie r squared.

    Gordon, with a 23 foot range, can operate in an area roughly 830 square feet in size.

    Bynum, about 508 square feet with his 18 foot range. Thats if Bynum can shoot over the opposing guard.

    Over 50% more square feet of operating room for Gordon, as compared to Bynum. I'll take Gordon.
     
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I would argue that Ben Gordon would primarily operate on the arc of his large semi-circle (shooting 3's at a .321 clip) while Will Bynum would explore every inch of his semi-circle (shooting almost 60% from the paint and going there quite often).

    The arc of a circle has zero area, so BG would actually not exist at all.
     
  8. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    Have you seen Gordon play the point on the rare occasion that he's been used in that role as a Piston? DREADFUL. Stuckey looks like CP3 at the point compared to Gordon.

    People that complain about Stuckey's point guard skills would be in for a rude awakening with Gordon's ability to play that position.
     
  9. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Yay! Nerd jokes! :nerd:
     
  10. max

    max All-Star

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    Good points and I agree that Stuckey's defense is pretty good now. There are a lot of other shrimpy guards out there so maybe mix it up a bit and play it situational based on what the other team has. This team is going to have to be really creative to win.


    For short periods I have seen Gordon play the point but could never get a good feel for it.
     
  11. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Right now, we have 10 healthy players playing. Bynum, Stuckey, Gordon, Rip, Tay, Daye, Summers, JMAX, Monroe, Ben Wallace.

    Injury status: CV, sore hammy. TMAC, mending knee. Diogu, mending knee, Wilcox, probably a bad back although I am sure they would rather not mention it, JJ, out for season, recent surgery to repair torn achilles I think. (or was it a knee ligament?). White, out until around Christmas recovering from surgery for a broken foot.

    16 guys in total, one to be cut before camp ends.

    Now, a rotation, simply based on one thing - playing guys in position, instead of out of position. (using the 10 healthy guys.)

    What to work with: Bynum and Stuckey, and I will throw in Gordon, at point.

    Shooting guard, Rip, Gordon, Tay, Daye, Guess you have to throw in Stuckey.

    Small forward: Tay, Daye, Summers

    Power forward: JMAX, Monroe, Summers.

    Center: Monroe, Ben Wallace, JMAX

    Start: Stuckey, Daye, Summers, Monroe, Ben Wallace.

    2nd unit: Gordon, Rip, Tay, JMAX, (with Summers, Monroe, and Ben Wallace taking turns completing the 2nd unit.)

    1st sub: 6 minutes into the game, Gordon comes on to replace Ben Wallace, letting Gordon play some shooting guard to warm up.

    Stuckey, Gordon, Daye, Summers, Monroe.

    2 minutes to go in the 1st quarter, Rip, Tay and JMAX come in.

    Gordon, Rip, Tay, Monroe, JMAX.

    Opening of 2nd quarter: Gordon, Rip, Tay, JMAX, Ben Wallace

    6 minutes into 2nd, Stuckey comes back in:

    Stuckey, Rip, Tay, JMAX, Ben Wallace.

    Last 4 minutes of half: Stuckey, Rip, Tay, Monroe, JMAX

    Projected minutes per game:

    Stuckey 32
    Gordon 24 (16 at point, 8 at shooting guard)
    Rip 28
    Daye 20 (12 at shooting guard, 8 at small forward)
    Tay 28
    Summers 20 (12 at small forward, 8 at power forward)
    Monroe 32 (24 at center, 8 at center)
    Ben Wallace 28
    JMAX 28 (12 at center, 16 at power forward)

    Of note, with this set-up, Gordon and Rip are already at a bare minimum of minutes that they might possibly tolerate. Any minutes for Bynum would not translate into reduced minutes for those two. Instead, its guys like Daye, Summers, and Monroe that would end up losing minutes. Rip would move to small forward to accomodate minutes for Bynum, which would cause a chain reaction. Basically, any minutes Bynum plays, we go a lot smaller.
     
  12. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    There are still a few weeks away from the opening season.

    The latter two might bring you 12 points total.

    The first trilogy have the constant gleam in their eyes. The gleam is not self-contained. It is a reflection from the constant glare illuminated from the rim. In short, they must always face the rim. That photon object is never out of sight.

    You will absolutely have no movement and shall we say that the opposition might be aware of this? Stuckey might huff and puff, but he is all honesty...their book on him say, "make him go hard." Each time he does this, all fellow players gleefully begin their traditional front-facing setups and wait.

    Do all say: perhaps next time around?
     
  13. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Its just slightly less than 2 weeks from opening season.

    You score by having Daye post up the opposing shooting guard. Stuckey and Ben cut to the basket. Summers sits on the perimeter ready to shoot a 3. Monroe follows the cutters looking for an offensive rebound. All that if they are not scoring on fast breaks.
     
  14. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    With JMAX possibly resting a sore knee, and CV maybe ready to play again:

    Start: Stuckey, Daye, Summers, CV, Monroe.

    2nd unit: Gordon, Rip, Tay, Ben Wallace, (with Summers, Monroe, and CV taking turns completing the 2nd unit.)
     
  15. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Our best players on offense are: Gordon, Rip, Daye, Tay, Stuckey, Bynum, Maxiel, Villanueva and Wallace........That should be our 9 man rotation with a consistent dash of Monroe to keep Wallace's minutes down...............There Will Be Blood..err...I mean Losses!
     
  16. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    CV can score. He averaged over 16 points per game 2 years ago. Defense is another thing....
     
  17. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    Here's the absolute key to this team. Can/will/and how well will Daye, CV and Monroe defend this season at PF and C?

    Unless you're in the Stuckey can't play department - a very very silly position IMO, we're loaded at PG/SG and SF. There's no doubt that Stuckey, Bynum, Rip, Gordon, Tay and McGrady if healthy can play. Daye will almost certainly split his minutes at SF and PF this season, and as a SF his relative lack of strength (he's a lot stronger than he used to be, but it's going to take him a few years to get to his prime strength) won't hurt him much.

    It's at PF that Daye's lack of relative strength will hurt the most. Can we be effective at that position on D? What about CV? He's in better shape and working a lot with Kandor might mean he's better on the boards and better defensively. Monroe is a rookie, and, like Daye, he's a few years away from having Center caliber strength. We need those 3 guys to be 3 of the 4 guys in the PF/C rotation with Ben Wallace, and we need Maxiell and/or Wilcox to be guys who spell the regular rotation guys only occassionally. If Maxiell and Wilcox are playing a lot, my guess is the Pistons aren't going to be having a lot of success.

    BTW, I still believe Summers could be a big surprise. I just don't know if he'll get that chance. Again, with him, it's all about whether he'll mix it up inside. Physically, he's the most ready of all the young guys - and of the young big men, he's likely the best defender of the bunch.
     
  18. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    CV and Monroe aren't good enough athletes to do it very well. CV doesn't have the attitude necessary either, even if he had Dennis Rodman's body.

    Daye can be a Prince type defender theoretically... i.e. can bother shorter guys with his length, but needs help behind him so that he can cheat out.
     
  19. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Start: Gordon, Daye, Tay, CV, Monroe

    2nd unit: Stuckey, Rip, Summers, JMAX, Ben Wallace

    Bynum and TMAC last two dressed.

    Other: Waive Wilcox. Diogu, let his kneed heal - he might be useful yet. JJ and White are injured. When White comes back later in the season, try him at backup point. (for a third string point.)
     
  20. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    With him being injured for the entire season, do we even have to use Jerebko in one of the 15 roster slots? Or, have the Pistons not given up on the idea of a JJ return this season?
     

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