Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by chillfan23, Jul 19, 2010.
That was a great 3,000th post.
I hear you. This team just hasn't been the same since Arroyo left.
I wouldn't bank on Detroit bettering the Cavs this season. We suck, have done since Chauncy got traded.
Start of the season:
C: Big Ben
After the deadline:
PG - Super Collider
SG - Ben Gordon (Rip is gone)
SF - Tay
PF - Charlie Garbage
C - The Fro
PG - Super Collider
SG - Ben Gordon
SF - Jeb or Austin Daye (Tay is gone)
PF - G-Money
C - a tired Ben Wallace
And you see Will Bynum as a Point Guard???? I think it was here a few months ago that I read about that.. Will Bynum is a Shooting Guard like Stuckey is..
SO Terrico White will be another "SG who Joe thinks he can play the PG too" like Bynum is/was.
No doubts about that the odds of White playing are really low.. I know.
According to Joe Dumars, Stuckey is/will become THE GUY.
And I never said that Bynum was a bad player or something like that! no way!
I think that a lot of teams like Miami or L.A. would be really interested in him..
No argue about that. But the big question then is: What does Will Bynum want??
Stuckey at point, with White backing him up.
Rip at shooting guard, with Gordon backing him up.
Tay at small forward, with Daye backing him up.
Monroe at power forward, with CV backing him up.
Ben Wallace at center, with JMAX backing him up.
That leavess, for the moment anyway, Bynum, JJ, and Summers looking for time on the floor.
7 of these 10 players in the rotation are quite young yet. Just Ben Wallace, Rip, and Tay have any age to speak of. Going deeper, nothing but youth.
With a coach who would use all ten of these guys, yes, we would make the playoffs.
But unfortunately, we have a clueless coach who will find every possible way to mess it all up. He will forget any game plan he may have to start out any game, overuse players, even very early in the season, and we will see a bunch of injuries. Everything will fall apart - as I have seen no sign that Kuester is capable of learning anything from past mistakes.
Change CV for Monroe in the starting lineup and that's my worst nightmare come true.
If it were the local YMCA comp they might all get a run yes but this is a pro league, the pro league and coaches don't sub guys on and off because it makes sense. No! Just like any pro sport young guys, inexperienced guys have to wait their turn, unless they're tearing it up out on the floor in training and games. We won't have that problem because we can't recruit for %%%%.
Unless trades shake this up:
There is no chance that JJ isn't a fixture in our rotation.
And if we sign Bynum, I don't see White getting any PT, even though I'd love to see him breakthrough.
Monroe and Ben Wallace have rotation spots.
Stuckey, Rip, Tay and Gordon have rotation spots.
CV has a rotation spot to lose.
Daye will likely be the 9th man, in a rotation of Stuckey, Rip, Gordon, Bynum, Monroe, Wallace, Tay and JJ.
Maxiell will be the 10th man - and might force himself into the rotation because of his physicalness, something our big men lack as a whole, and his ability to protect the rim - which is also something our big men lack.
Things that could shake up that rotation, aside from injuries and trades:
Daye is the most intriguing talent on the roster. He might be a wonderful option at SG, and as a fit on a team which doesn't play true PG's. If Daye breaksthrough into the rotation, Rip's, Gordon's, JJ's, CV's and Bynum's minutes will be imperilled. (Stuckey's spot in the starting lineup is not a realistic debate. The guy is obviously the best player on our team, and he's a fixture.)
Summers is one of the best shooters on the team, and has a potentially excellent all around game. I think he's likely be THE guy on our team that I'd love to play and who won't play much, since he seems to be behind too many guys in the rotation. However, if CV isn't cutting it, then Summers will get an opportunity to snarf up his position in the rotation.
White will likely see a lot of pine. But his physical talent, including his defensive potential, is so upper tier that it's conceivable that he'll force his way into the lineup. I predict that that is a "next season" conversation, but only if White shows a lot in practice.
If CV has a breakthrough year, he'll play a lot, and the minutes he's given will have a pretty dramatic effect on other potential rotation players - 1 of the reasons for this being that he'll be a prime offensive option making it a bit less necessary to have guys like Daye, Bynum and Rip and Gordon taking as many shots - and having their positions go to more defensive oriented guys. Conversely, if the coach starts to hate him again, then he'll be a lovely hood ornament on our bench, and the search will be on to create a team without a natural power forward other than Monroe.
Monroe is a huge potential game changer for the entire rotation. The potential of the offense running through him could turn the entire chemistry and pecking order of this team on its head. So could the positions he's able to play. He needs to get stronger, especially in his base, to play against the league's centers. But we need him at center. A hugely important story to follow this year is how his foot injury affected his athleticism. If it did a lot, and if post-surgery his athleticism improves noticeably from what we saw this summer, we might have caught lightning in a bottle.
Ben Wallace needs to be able to continue to give us quality minutes. If his body is too old for that - we'll be scrambling big time.
Ben Gordon is better. There, I said it.
So aren't Rip, Tay and even at this point of his career, Ben Wallace.
I can't think of too many other teams in the NBA where the subject of "best player on the team" is remotely debatable.
Props to Joe for assembling such a balanced attack!
Best player on the team is certainly not Rip. In fact, his game imperils the team.
Tay? Gets beat at his position by too many opponents from playoff bound teams.
Ben Wallace? Takes too many plays off on the offense. Can't run the floor well consistently.
Ben Gordon? If healthy, good case for him being our best guy. But he will have to stay healthy to prove it. I like this guys game, cause its balanced. He does shoot from the outside - but is a solid threat going inside as well.
Stuckey? If he had a consistent long ranger maybe. If he was better at fighting / maneuvering around picks to stay with his guy, maybe. But as is, a solid player only.
How to win with this imperfect crew: Limit minutes of Ben Wallace, so that when he is out there, he runs the floor more often. Limit Tay's minutes, so that he does not break down during the season. Limit Rip's minutes, because his game is basically detrimental to a team concept - make him understand that he is out there for D - and any offense that he may contribute. But de-emphasize his offensive game.
Limit Stuckey's minutes, because he is still not enough of a point guard to run a whole games worth of plays. Plus his physical style may be more effective if someone else is sharing the load. (Kind of liked it when we for instance were alternating between Stuckey and AI driving in.)
In sum, this team will be better with more guys sharing floor time. None of our starters are that good we have to play them major minutes. And none of them have proven they can hold up to such minutes anyway.
With all that said:
Start Stuckey, Gordon, Daye, JMAX, Monroe. (no aging players starting.)
2nd unit: White, Rip, Tay, JJ, Ben Wallace
Other useful players: Bynum, Summers
Needs: One more big guy
A strong coach could navigate his(or her) way into the playoffs with this roster.
An average coach... no way.
A poor coach, gets fired before the all-star break and the team has a great shot at winning the lottery.
We probably have an average coach.
I sincerely believe that nothing, not one thing, will be done right by the combination of Joe Dumars and Coach Q. This season, if it ever happens (Cause if the Pistons move out of town - it may as well not happen as I won't be paying any attention to it) is going to be a total disaster. Who knows what crazy nonsense Coach Q will come up with, and it will only be interesting to see what lies Joe Dumars comes up with to try to sugar coat the failures of the coach.
I was with you up until winning with this imperfect crew. Actually, I think your suggestions are good, too. I just don't think this roster as is, even if everything clicks, can win anywhere close to 40 games.
Personally, I think Kuester is good coach. The ball is in Dumars' court right now....
Joe is like Tayshaun with the ball....just holding it, and holding it, and holding it......
Good luck with that. We need to part with Rip as his style of play doesn't fit with the skills of the rest of the roster. But, while he's here the whole de-emphasize his offensive game thing ain't never gonna happen.
Rip's been the leading scorer for this team every year since he was signed in 2002. From Joe D and Q's points of view, what you're proposing is like trying to use a B-52 bomber as a cargo plane.
Frankly, I don't think that's a good use of Rip either. He would be the primary offensive weapon in that second unit you listed and there is nothing wrong with that. Rip can score against other teams' benches all day long.
There's gonna be some grieving goin' on if Rip is asked to come off of the bench.
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