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Stuckey - PG?/Not PG?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Brap, Nov 8, 2010.

  1. copper

    copper Bench Warmer

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    I think Stuck played a chauncey game last night and I mentioned that to my wife while I was watching the game. He looked in control all game, posted up, was always looking to pass while he drove to the rack( something he rarely has done in the past) and took his shots when it was needed and in rythm. I dont think he is having any more than a decent year so far. But, it took cnote a few years to become the player everyone remembers him as. I see Silver spoon, jogging rodney, 50 cent, sacred cow or whatever ya wanna call him this week...coming along the same learning curve. Hopefully this is a sign that he is learning how to run a team and that he'll continue to progress as a team fascilitator and not just a flash at what he can do and revert back to head down bullrushes at the rim
     
  2. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Last season Stuckey averaged 17.5 points and 5.0 assists per 36 minutes.

    Chauncey didn't have a year where he was higher in both of those categories until his 9th year in the league ('05-'06 Pistons). I wouldn't have believed that if I didn't look it up myself.
     
  3. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    Look at Rondo's teammates. That team was terrible early in his career, and now he's got Pierce, KG, Ray Allen, Shaq, JO, etc. My assists would improve around these guys too. Stuck's team has gone the opposite way in a hurry.

    That's not to say Rondo isn't a much better playmaker and player overall. Just pointing it out. These 2 situations couldn't be further apart.
     
  4. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    Yeah, but so many people here and on other boards directly blame Stuckey for the fall, no matter how unfair and unjustified that is. The Pistons were a team in their twilight anyway.
     
  5. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Teammates, schmeammates.

    The Pistons could have Rajon Rondo if Rod Stuckey wasn't undeservingly deemed "un-tradeable" by Joe Dumars 2 summers ago.

    Rondo is an ELITE PG.
    Stuckey might not be the best PG on a rebuilding team that is currently last place in their division.
     
  6. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Remember when Will Blalock hit that three?
     
  7. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    I prsonally don't look at a PG based on stats. I look to see if the PG can run the offense by (1) Getting a team in their sets. (2) Is the offense getting good looks, make or miss.

    Ast numbers can be misleading. A player can rack up a ton of asts but it doesn't mean they're doing a good job of running the point. Westbrook in OKC is an example, I could avg 6 asts playing with Durant. High ast totals can also be evidence of poor ball movement; if you have a PG that dribbles, dribbles, dribbles and then makes one pass that leads to a challenged bucket, is that really an ast?

    When Stuckey is running the point I don't really see the offense flowing and getting good looks, I don't see him in command of his teammates on the floor, and I don't believe he's built to do it. I like the kid, I think he can be better than Jamal Crawford coming off the bench, but put me in the category of folks who have that 20 year old antiquated train of thought of believing that teams need PG's who act as floor generals, that's just not his game.

    Take T-Mac for instance, he's not a PG, he's a play maker (when healthy of course), I see Rodney in the same way, not a PG, but a play maker, who until recently has made deliberate choices to make the wrong play for his team.
     
  8. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    I say we use this thread to break down games this season based on his PG play, a PG recap if you will, we've given Young 50 everything else.
     
  9. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    Actually, that was my intention when I started this thread.
     
  10. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    I think Stuckey is putting any debate over that to rest. Who's even arguably better on this team right now? Bynum? Eh, not so much. Right now, Stuckey is the best player on the team, and I'm not finding much of an argument for anyone else either (Gordon has played fantastic offensively).

    And just FYI, that Rondo trade rumor was squashed by Danny Ainge. That trade was never seriously entertained among the higher ups in the organizations.
     
  11. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    And I don't have the slightest clue in me why people STILL want Stuckey to come off the bench, given how he's played so far this year. If he continues to play this well, why would you put him on the bench? There's no evidence to even suggest that he'd be better off the bench. And there's no player good enough on this roster to force him out of a starting spot.
     
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I agree that Stuck looks better than Bynum right now, but it's early in the season. Bynum has only played 59 minutes total in 3 appearances.

    And Stuckey's biggest weaknesses in the past seemed to have improved a little too much (suspect that he will revert back toward his averages).

    For instance, he's shooting a career high FG% so far with an eFG% about 40 points above his career average. He's only made 3 three pointers, so most of the improvement is inside the arc.

    He's averaging 2.0 more assists per game than his career average. 6.3 vs. 4.3... which is a ridiculous improvement if it holds.


    From a "running the team" point of view, it's been very mixed for Stuck so far. We've been in almost every game and have enjoyed some large leads and looked dangerous. But in crunch time, we've crumbled over and over. A lot is due to weak D, but some falls on him too. We're going 3+ minutes without a hoop when we absolutely need one.

    But I do agree that if he keeps up this pace with efficient shooting and this higher assist rate that he'll firmly cement his starting role and quiet the critics.
     
  13. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    I don't think it's too hard to believe (then again, I'm a Stuckey homer). This could be his break out year finally.
     
  14. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    The debate and critics won't cease as far as some fans scale bball games by NFL criterion while whether Micheal Vick a True QB is yet concluded. :)

    (I love RS and I love Mike too.)
     
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Somewhat timely article here:
    http://netsarescorching.com/2010/11/02/why-two-pgs-are-better-than-one/

    It deals with what a lot here are calling for... putting a true PG on the floor with Stuckey and using him as he seems to naturally play- as an offensively minded guard who scores first and passes second.

    Stuckey's having a breakout year assist-wise, but here is how he looks in comparison to others... notice that the guy most similar to him is Harris.



    Per 48 for all players with over 30mpg average (i.e. starters). This stat really seems to pull the cream to the top in terms of what are obviously elite PG's.
    1. Rondo- 17.4
    2. Kidd- 15.2
    3. Paul- 13.9
    4. Rose- 12.6
    5. Miller- 12.3
    6. Nash- 12.1
    7. Wall- 11.5
    8. Parker- 11.4
    9. Williams- 10.9
    10. Felton- 10.7
    11. LeBron- 10.7
    12. Conley- 10.2
    13. Harris- 10.0
    14. Stuckey- 9.5
    Almost all of those guys also have higher FG%'s than Stuck. So, if Stuck maintains this great play, we have what should be considered an average NBA starting point guard on our team.

    If he goes back to his career averages, then we have what should be considered one of the bottom starters or a top reserve.


    Most of what I'm doing here is just thinking out loud. If I were Joe, I'd stick with Stuck at least until I build the defense back up. I am hopeful that Stuckey will be a great defender at some point in the future.
     
  16. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    Right now, Stuckey is definitely playing better than simply average. I don't think looking at something as trivial as "assists per 48 min" is doing us any justice in evaluating him (I, for one, never use per 48 numbers for the simple fact that no one plays that many minutes). He's 10th among point guards in PER, 9th in turnover rate, 9th in value added, 8th in expected wins added, 8th in assist to turnover ratio (6th among starters).

    Right now, Stuckey is playing at the level of a top 10 player at his position. I don't buy that he's only upped his game to merely "average" right now.

    And Stuckey's defense is fine. He's the best man to man defender on our team, in my opinion (yes, over the much heralded Ben Wallace and Prince).
     
  17. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    Trade Rip or Max for Paul.
     
  18. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    In his first 5 games in the Australian league this season he is 2-10.


    What's the definition of a 'true PG' anyway? Most of the guys considered true PG's are guys with shooting or scoring deficiencies. See Chris Duhon, Luke Ridnour, Andre Miller...

    The only exceptions are really Jason Kidd and Rondo, and the argument can be made for them too.

    Most of the elite PG's average over 17 points per game. Whether they are true or not, who cares? They get it done. Everyone has seen how teams play Rondo, daring him to shoot. That's a weakness.

    Stuckey isn't elite, nor is he a liability. He is simply a serviceable PG and a better scoring guard that may be close to reaching his ceiling. Personally I think he has outperformed his draft position. He is on a par with Mike Conley who was drafted 4th, and its no contest compared to Acie Law (11) and Javaris Crittenton (19). Our pick decision came down to Stuckey or Nick Young. We got the better player.

    I agree with the comments that Joe's mistake was anointing him too early. I really wanted CB around for 1 or 2 more seasons while Stuckey learnt the position. But there is no use crying over spilt GM decisions.

    At the current point in time, there are other positions I'd rather upgrade first.
     
  19. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    #1. Thanks for the Will Blalock update.
    #2. Thanks for basically summing up my own thoughts for me regarding Rod Stuckey.
     
  20. jayborne

    jayborne Bench Warmer

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    Other than wanting to Chauncey to stay, I agree with everything in this post. Once we upgrade our 2-5, we can worry about Stuck.

    The league is currently having an influx of elite young PGs. Stuckey clearly isn't in that tier, but he'll do.
     

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