Tales from the dark side....

Discussion in 'Pistons and Basketball Articles' started by G-man, Mar 3, 2006.

  1. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    For 50 grand a day, you bet!:P

    Honestly, I think it lasts until his contract is up. Plus, the difference is, that when I had the opportunity to do things that were degree related, I did the absolute best that I could. I guarantee that Darko would have had more playing time if he would have truly "brought-it" while he was on the court.

    I watched part of the Sonics game last night, and I couldn't help but notice that as the Pistons were standing around a bit, Mo Evans was flying out of bounds trying to grab the loose ball, or crashing the boards hard for the rebound. Even when he didn't have much of a chance of getting it.

    If Darko would have taken all that talent and played with that kind of heart for 3 minutes of garbage time, I guarantee you he wouldn't have been sitting on the bench. I never saw that kind of effort out of the guy. Ever.:mad:
     
  2. Jackattaq

    Jackattaq First Round Draft Pick

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    Here is where we completely disagree. I feel like whatever Darko did (good Euroleague, good preseason) he was never gonna play. His coaches even said that he was playing hard in practice and they said that needed to get him PT but they NEVER FOLLOWED UP. 3-5 minutes stints every 3rd-4th game won't give you much time to "find your game".

    Just look at Carlos Delfino. All we have heard is that Flip loves him and his effort but yet he is still racking up DNP-CD's. No one complains about CD's effort or game.

    Dice did not start the season on fire. He was DECENT at best but yet he gets his minutes added to and Darko loses his? Dice wasn't hustling everywhere. He had some 2-3 rebound games and got beat on D alot. But because Dice was a vet he got a free pass.

    For everyone who says that Darko didn't didin't "earn his pt" they need to remember that Darko was on the roster for 2.5 years and he was practicing everyday and he PATIENTLY waited for over 2 years for his turn before GIVING UP. I think that's alot of patience for a #2 overall pick and 20 year kid.
     
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Why use Dice and Delfino as examples?

    The smoking gun is the fired up guy sans metro-sexual haircut in Orlando. A complete attitude and hairstyle makeover. His first 10 minutes in Orlando was more productive than his last 30 minutes of Detroit basketball.

    But now he's on a squad that will be able to afford top dollar when he's a RFA. That's fact. I watched a little Orlando ball with DMC, and he NEVER played like that in Detroit. The only one unleashing DMC was himself.
     
  4. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Zo, if he slacked off do to his untenable situation, he was sandbaggin'. I think people can see effort or lack of said.
    Is the fact that Lee is having the last laugh with his sandbaggin' term. eating at you?
     
  5. max

    max All-Star

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    If you read G-mans article he does not specify that Darko lost it during games. Yes he would have some great moments in the sparse PT he did get only to lose his spot for something he was doing or not doing off the court in practice.

    Nonone knows the true story. Maybe someone will write a book in 20 years but for now we can only guess. Maybe he was not showing up on time or refusing to do certain drills - who knows? It is still early in Orlando.

    Darko made a dumb comment. Most players who get traded under stressfull circumstances do slip out dumb comments. G.Hill made plenty of them on his way out.

    One thing we can admire is that the kidd did not go Artest on us. He went through the proper channels in requesting a trade and we ended up with a potentially decent pick in return.
     
  6. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Micro I don't remember you ever saying Darko was a Max-O guy six months back. This is new for you, nice to see you adjust.
    ...Lazy, I'll check you on the money thing, if Darko learned anything here he'll sign in the 55-65 mi$. area. If he is a me guy he'll sign in the 70-80 range. Check those numbers.
     
  7. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Three TFD, what makes me think that he is a team-first guy and will take less than the max: Even when he was getting such a low amount of PT, he spent his time passing to teammates, setting picks, and especially passing to and setting up rookies. He would take and make one shot a game. He jumped out on pick and rolls and blocked shots

    own in Orlando, he is doing the same and still scoring, but not as much as he will do later.

    Another thing that is misleading, in my view is that he just goes so slow during times when the action is not on. I don't know how many of you guys remember Jim Brown, the Cleveland NFLer. He would drag himself to his feet and back to the huddle after running and getting tackled. It was like he could not summon up another drop of energy. But when he ran the ball on the next play, he would explode into the line.

    Just watch Darko's feet when he is like going to the foul line or on and off the court. Then watch them when he jumps out on the pick and roll and then gets back to his man before the ball can get there.

    Well, the story is not over yet. And it surely does cause some conversation on the forums.
     
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Ok enough with the BSing please. If he took and made one shot a game, he'd be a perfect shooter, which he wasn't.

    Who cares how fabulous his footwork is? Detroit was his nightmare. He couldn't earn enough cold hard cash here, and his butt cheeks fell asleep trying to stay interested in a championship drive.

    I absolutely cannot wait until it comes time for him to negotiate a new contract in Orlando. We'll see how interested he is in being a team guy, leaving some salary scraps on the table for Dwight Howard and Jameer Nelson to pick up...
     
  9. Abe Froemen

    Abe Froemen First Round Draft Pick

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    This is going to be a hard pill for some of you to swallow but the Pistons screwed Darko. If the Pistons are the epitome of selfless team play as many of you claim them to be, there should have been no reason that Ben could not have given some of his pt to Darko. Same goes for Sheed and Dyess. If they cared about this team the way some of you think they do which is to bleed Piston red white and blue this should have been a simple thing to do.

    If Darko had gotten the 10-15 minutes a game that he needed to develop then he would have become the player we all thought he could have been when Joe drafted him. We all know that there are games that players like Sheed have a hard time to get up for because the other team sux. These are the games when developing Darko would have been easy to do. Hell games where we had at lead a 10 point lead in it would have been a good time to put in the kid and let him learn to play through his mistakes. If the game got to close for comfort put the starters back in and boom your back in the lead you won the game and your human victory cigar is 1 step closer to ridding himself of the nickname.

    Imo he never stood a chance because he was never given anything other than garbage time. I agree with Zoso on this one completely no matter what he showed he was not going to take time away from the big 3 so what did it matter. Speaking of big 3's if you want to look at it from a metaphorical sense you can compare them. The automaker big 3 got to full of itself and then wham someone else was making the cars that people wanted. The Pistons big 3 won’t dominate much longer and could have used young Darko to keep them at the top.

    The argument will only intensify if Darko proves he can play. With each game Darko gets a solid double double and 3-5 blocks and Bens rebound total goes down it will be really hard to put a positive spin on it from a Pistons standpoint. But hey if you want to fit the definition of a homer to a T and say it was all Darko’s fault then be my guest.

    My nightmare will be when Ben goes down in a heap and we have to use J-max as a center.
     
  10. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    I see some serious denial here. First people said Darko sucked, now that he doesn't suck, they say he sandbagged. Also I here people saying that if the coaches new he was this good they would have played him, because coaches want to win, they'll play there best players.

    As to coaches playing there best players, does anyone remember the triple overtime loss against NJ, where Ben had fouled out, and LB put in Darvin at center over Okur? Was LB playing the best player to win or his favorite player? Be honest. A lot of coaches would rather lose their way, than win with guys they don't like.

    As for sandbagging, get real. Sheed is quoted as saying a lot of you cats are going to proven wrong about Darko, he's the real deal. If he was sand bagging why did Piston player think he was really good. And for sandbagging real pt, Darko had a handful of real pt in 3 years, and I'd say a majority of those games he did OK. He had one horrific game against NY, and he never played again.

    As far as GT, he's playing GT with guys looking to pad their stats, and do you guys remember when he broke his hand in GT in the finals, and LB wouldn't let him come out? Do ya think Sheed plays hard in GT? He admitted to taking regular season games off.

    And as far as going for the cash, let me get this straight, Detroit has pretty much treated him like crap for 3 years, yet he should be willing to sign for much less in Detroit than he could get anywhere else just for the privilege of being in Detroit? Ben, I understand, Prince I understand, we treated them right. Can you honestly say we treated Darko right?

    Think about it, he could resign in Detroit for about 5 or 6 mil a year, sit the bench, and be called the human victory cigar, or go somewhere else, sign for 10+ mil a year, start, get endorsements, and receive recognition.

    And last, this is a Detroit trend, Houston signed with the Knicks without even allowing Detroit to match. GHill told the Pistons not to match. What makes you think Darko would want the Pistons to match. Somethings up with the org, we treat some guys right, but for some reason we really mess up with other guys that could really help the team.

    And unfortunately we're repeating the same mistakes with Delfino, Acker, and Johnson.
     
  11. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    That may be the real story, Ben, Dice, and Sheed may have complained about minutes and guess who loses? Darko. I know Dice was complaining at the beginning of the season that Darko was taking his minutes, he blamed that on his poor play at the beginning. (Check the stats, Darko was out playing Dice the first month).

    The same may be happening with Tay and Delfino. Tay is in slump, no need to put in Delfino who might challenge for minutes, play Evans, no threat to Tay.
     
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Can you honestly say that Darko treated Detroit right? The premise of the article is that if you collect the paycheck, you show up and do your job. Basically the foundation of Detroit basketball. If you don't get minutes, but the team is still winning, you collect your check, smile/sign autographs and you do your job.

    Ok, so you do grasp the premise of the article. Darko did what was right by him, not what was right by the Pistons. That's fine. I don't have a problem with it, because we ship players with that mentality out of town. Everyone should be happy. Which is why I cannot understand why there is a bombardment of "look at Darko in Orlando", when this team is still on track to win a title, and now has the cap room to compete for a couple more years without any major overhauls.

    Houston left under another management regime. He also never won anything playing with HOFers for a HOF coach in NY.

    I'd say losing Grant Hill turned out pretty good. We got more for Darko than we did for Hill considering the relative position of the club at two different times.

    No, we're not repeating the mistake as you put it. Delfino is being worked into the lineup. He's also bringing a Grade A effort everytime on the court, which will endear him to Joe.

    Acker and Johnson, for those of you too busy following the Orlando Magic are tearing up the D-League. That's right, two late second round picks who could easily have been undrafted FAs if not selected by the Pistons are playing for min contracts and putting out in Fayetteville.
     
  13. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Wave, 2 points
    Nobody, and I mean nobody, signs for 5 mil below fare value. And guarantee this, Darko, because of this trade will be the #1 Free agent next year. Orlando is already doing a Joe, 3 blocks in 3 minutes tonight. Orlando yanked him, thinking oh crap, he's good, how do we resign him on the cheap. Too late, the cat's out of the bag.

    Two, Detroit is working Delfino out of the rotation, inspite of doing everything the right way this season. Delfino is as gone as Darko.
     
  14. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Lots of good points here.

    In my opinion here are the facts:
    • Detroit's coaches, both Brown and Flip, have done a poor job of integrating rookie talent into the lineup. Flip's decison to play Evans over Delfino and continue to play the starters in the fourth quarter when we are ahead by a large margin prove these points.
    • Darko didn't do much to help his cause. Where Flip has an obvious affinity for Evans, he had a similar appreciation for Darko at the beginning of the season. Darko stopped working hard and eventually became disinterested in playing. Chauncey even admitted that this was the truth. This is not conducive to the "be ready when my name is called" mentality that helps win one minutes. Darko was payed a helluva lot of money this year to be ready when called upon. He wasn't. Unacceptable.
    • Darko, given minutes, has shown tremendous upside in Orlando. Its obvious that Darko is excelling in his new situation. The jury is still out though fellas. Can you say Dampier, Blount, Gadzuric, Swift, Nestorivich...? The list goes on and on. These are players that actually posted amazing numbers just to fizzle out over time when the motivation fades. Please hold off in placing Darko in the Hall of Fame just yet.
    • Darko was never going to succeed here. I think everyone can agree with this point. His effort, the coaches mismanagement, and unrealistic expectations prevented Darko from ever being a part of Detroit's long term plans. Darko has a new lease on life. I'm glad I no longer have a vested interest in his success. That roller coaster ride was beginning to grow old.
     
  15. bricalz

    bricalz First Round Draft Pick

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    You know why Darko was traded?

    It's because of uncertainties like this. This topic and this subject. The kid himself. His work ethic, his excuses, his lack of effort, his sandbagging, his playing time among other things.

    He was traded because he didn't bring it every night.

    He didn't bring it every night because he felt he deserved more.

    TO his credit, maybe he could have been given more time.

    But that is why he was traded. Too many what ifs and no tangible performances in the regular season to speak of.

    He will bloom in Orlando, as he is, and he will prove that he wasn't as wasted a pick as we all thought.

    He wanted the change. We wanted to facilitate that and get something in return.

    These are not rose-shaded spectacles I'm looking through. These are plain, black rimmed, fair view of what I think went on.

    Darko: Immature, too much pressure, too great a hype to live up to, no time, no effort on court, gave up and waited for his contract to run out so he could go to a team where he will be given minutes.

    Pistons: Those spectacles G was talking about, thought that everybody they brought in bought into the selfless system they so cherish, a coaching staff who was bent on making Darko earn minutes hence no playing time, and a cap to think about.

    I'm not saying it was all Darko, and it was definitely not all Pistons. It was both, and when you see that it is not working, you got to let it go and find something else that works.

    I'm not angry G. I'm disappointed. But I still believe in Detroit. As much as I rooted for the kid to do well, he is enemy now and hate him as much as you do, in a competitive way.
     
  16. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

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    G's article is right on the money! I feel the same way. The cat flat out STOLE money while he was here. His legacy as a Piston did not eclipse Chuck Nevitt or William Bedford. :frusty:

    The biggest disagreement over Darko had to do with interpretation of his play. All he had to do was step on the court and the Darko lovers would swear he was playing "fantastic." It's like they were really looking at Sheed and imagining a #31 jersey on him. Or vice-versa. Exhibit A is all the comparisons to Sheed, i.e. "Sheed gets away with "X," why can't Darko?"

    How does a super-hyped lottery pick let a same aged, same sized, no-hyped, no playing time scrub like Peter John Ramos flat out DOG him out? :confused: INEXCUSABLE! :frusty: And that's just ONE example.

    I am SO GLAD this clown is out of here! I wish him well in Mickey Town where if he approaches the second coming of Shawn Bradley; those fans will appreciate it. :hail: Our expectations are higher than that in these parts.
     
  17. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Quit beating around the bush, Mad. Just come right out and say what you mean. :violin: :hurt::blah: :deadhorse :behindsof !!!


    Everybody is allowed to be completely wrong, sometime.
     
  18. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    EXACTLY RIGHT MO!!!

    The "Darko Experiment wasn't one persons fault. Its a shared blame. Joe D, LB, Flip and Darko ALL deserve some of the blame for this.

    Joe drafted Darko (at the time, it looked like the right decision, so I won't fault him for that)

    Darko expected PT to be handed to him (Darko's fault)

    LB compeltely destroyed the kid emotionally (LB's fault)

    LB and Flip wouldn't give him enough opportunities (LB's, Flips, and Joe's fault for allowing it to happen)

    Darko didn't take consistent advantage (Darko's fault) of the few chances (LB and Flip's fault) he did get. He gave us flashes, but couldn't sustain it.

    Darko wasn't rewarded when he did perform well. The organization talked the talk, but didn't walk the walk. (LB's, Flips, and Joe's fault for allowing it to happen)

    Darko gave up completely (Darko's fault)

    The fact that we're still talking about Darko (our fault)
     
  19. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

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    Yeah Lazy, I know complaining about Darko is :deadhorse

    Everytime I read a comparison of Darko to Sheed I hear :violin:

    Everytime I hear that he wasn't given a chance, I also hear :violin:

    Makes me :sick:

    Darko was :crutch: given the :clock: he got. No wonder Joe :yield:

    I'm :Cry: cause we could have spent that pick (and $) on ______.

    I knew Darko was :rip: after that inspired performance in the summer leagues. You can :hail: him if you choose.

    I look forward to our game with the Magic so we can :laser: :brick: Darko and :smash: Arroyo while :boxing: Orlando.

    Say....aren't these "smilies" cool? :nod:
     
  20. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

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    Bill Laimbeer (the real one) refers to guys like Darko as "stealing money".

    Nice piece, G.
     

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