Tay vs. Amir

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Slippy, Jun 13, 2006.

  1. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    Wow. I am an idiot. Obviously he's not an upgrade.
  2. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Neither is Stackhouse. Tay plays much harder and better defense than him, and Stack can have some very poor shot selection.
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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  4. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Amir shouldn't compete with Tay, but compliment him. What these last two playoffs have shown is Tay does not have any endurance. Wishing and thinking he can play 35+ mpg doesn't make it so.

    Coaches need to cut Tay down to the high 20's low 30's per game, and get 100% effort out of him in the minutes he plays. And if Amir and Delfino can come in and play solid for 15-20 minutes, the team not only gets a fresh Tay, but has the luxury of matching up different players against the other teams 3.
  5. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    No, I'm 100% sober today. All clean, fully rested, perfect opportunity to put the entire leg into my mouth. :P

    One day in the late '80s I ran into my father-in-law in public and spoke to him for 10 minutes without recognizing him. I think that was the most pleasant conversation we ever had. It probably didn't raise his opinion of me, though.

    I think Curry overall was underrated, although the Prince situation was handled poorly. I'd take 2001 Curry on the bench over any of the 2005 reserve guards.
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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  7. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    It's not an either/or scenario, Amir is more like Shawn Marion, he'll never be a pure sf, nor will he be a pure pf, the dude is a guy that is going to be a stud though. Count me as a person that absolutely loves Shawn Marion's game and I love the fact that I see the similiarities in Amir's game. He'll be the player that blows by traditional pf's, and abuses smaller sf's.

    Count me in the boat that says Tay won't be a star in this league (although I do believe he'll make an allstar game or two before he retires). Tay isn't the type of player that can you can suit up as your 1st option and he gets it done for you. However Tayshaun may be one of the best complementary players in the NBA, he's a link between a good team and a contender. Replace Quinton Ross (who played extrememly well in the playoffs) with Tayshaun in Clipper land and they would've beaten phx. Tayshaun at the SF with the Lakers and they're a 50-55 win team that can make it to the WCF. Replace Bowen with Tay and San Anton is unstoppable for years to come. BTW Tay is a more than adequate rebounder at the SF position, but the new coach doesn't value things like rebounding, all 3 perimeter starters rebounding #'s took a sharp decline this year. Make Tay focus on rebounding and I guarantee you he'll get you 6-7 reb's per.
  8. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    You always need a Tay like guy if you want to win. You can't have 5 guys who always need the ball in there hands to help the team ala Knicks.
  9. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I'm sticking up for Tay. Even if half of what you say is true, he was one of the very few Pistons who actually showed some effort out there. And as they say, you can't coach that. (probably a good thing, because Flip would stuff it up) :P

    Whats this about Tay relying on others to create mismatches for him??
    He IS a mismatch every time he goes down on the block. If not, what exactly was I watching in the game vs miami when mr.no ideas and his coach called his play every time down for the entire second half?

    Tay is not expected to be a superstar. I'm not sure many people around here are claiming that. Sure, you might be able to find someone with a better looking shot, OR a better rebounder, OR a better passer, but you won't find many players with a better all-round game. Tay is a unique player, an X-factor that you just don't find every day in the nba.

    So, if some reason Tay and Amir can't co-exist on the same team then I'd choose Tay, just like we chose him over Melo.

    By the way, I don't think you will find a consistent scorer for the pistons who got anywhere near 46% shooting in the playoffs other than Tay.

    My respect for Tay grew immensely due to his playoff performances. He battled on both ends of the floor tirelessly, night in, night out, for 45+ minutes. He was the only one showing the 'goin to work' attitude that has described this team for the past couple of years. And that is why a lot of people have come to his defence, including me.
  10. lurker

    lurker First Round Draft Pick

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    It's nice to see that this thread has turned into a Tay lovefest. :nod: He can do so many things without dominating the ball, has a great attitude, and is still only 26. His stats aren't super impressive, and it's hard to imagine Joe equal value for him.

    If Amir turns out to be as good as some people are saying, I'm sure a clever coach (is that you, Flip?) will figure out how to play them together productively.
  11. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    This almost sounds like a contingency plan for Big Ben leaving:


    Billups at the 1
    Rip at the 2
    Tay at the 3
    JMax/Amir at the 4
    Sheed at the 5


    And I don't want to hear the usual, "Oh, Amir and JMax need some seasoning." Let these kids take their lumps out on the floor. I'm sick of "projects" riding the bench. As long as they display hungry attitudes, they need to play. Pistons need to sacrifice some wins in the regular season to get these guys some experience. Delfino, too.
  12. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    ggazoo you have to realize that these young fellas have less hair on their chests than you have on your back. I think we should be prepared for another season of garbage time for the young fellas.
  13. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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  14. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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  15. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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  16. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    Is that a nylon stocking?
  17. kolay

    kolay First Round Draft Pick

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    Tay is the most important guy on the team, he does every little thing. Don't you see he is the player who played most playoff game in the first 4 years of the career. It means he does very good job for the team. Also, he didn't miss a game since he is in the starting line up. He took the responsibility for offense when team can't go in the last two series. When he scores more than 20, Pistons don't lose. By the way, his contract is much more reasonable than any other SF in the league (considering Dunleavy etc.).

    As for Amir, he is a young talented player. He has to learn a lot, he'll get his chance. I think Joe will extend his contract next year, before his breakout season. Amir will be a SF/PF swingman. He is a perfect suit for the Pistons. Dice will play more 2 season than retire (07-08 will be his player option year, I think he will stay), then Amir will be the guy to fill the position. Amir will be a significant part in 08-09 season, there will be 3 more years to develope him mature. Let's wait and see.
  18. Superstarov

    Superstarov First Round Draft Pick

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    All I have to say, is that if you watched any of the playoff games, you'd know that Tay played with more passion and drive than any of the other guys on the team.

    He was almost always guarding the other team's best player, and he played with composure and drive.

    If every player on this team had his attitude and his passion, we'd still be watching the Pistons right now.

    If you think this team would be better off without him... I'm sorry, but to be frank, you're an idiot.
  19. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    His game has weaknesses and hopefully he isn't so enamored of his success that he will stop working on them. But, overall I'm with you. If you are ranking from have to have on down, Tay comes first, then Rip, then it gets hard.


    I wonder if the Pistons will ever have the offense he needs to really showcase his skills though. Just imagine him in Phoenix...
  20. Jackattaq

    Jackattaq First Round Draft Pick

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    I really feel like Tayshaun is an under-appreciated Piston. He does whatever is asked of him from the coach (without complaint). He spent all season hanging out at the perimeter by orders of Flip Saunders. (we know because that's the same role that every other SF played for us this year).

    It's obvious to most that Tay NEEDS to use his versatility to be most effective. If you want to "limit Tay's abilities" by making him strictly a standstill 3 pt shoooter (a la Flip's plan this year) you are limiting his effectiveness.

    I was very impressed by the way that Tayshaun played in the Cleveland series. He was in the lowpost and the offense ran through him on most possessions. For the most part he made the right decisions. It was nice to see Tayshaun "featured".

    Flip really needs to re-tool the offense that the Pistons are playing. The bulk of the points are from perimeter jumpers which limit the Pistons from getting points in the paint and from the free throw line. It also doesn't allow them to get their defense set when they miss and it's a long rebound. The Pistons need to re-think their strategy before next season.

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