Tayshaun Prince's Big Game struggles

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by 2Tough4You, Jan 31, 2009.

  1. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    In my experience on message boards, it seems that the majority of the fans tend to have blamed Sheed, Flip, Rip, Chauncey, etc... But why is Tayshaun Prince excluded from said criticism? Is it because of his tranquil personality? I'd really like to know

    Here was tonight's line for Prince...

    4 points, 1-7 FG, 1 rebound, 4 assist, 3 steals.

    His defense, which has always been a bit overrated, was a total non-factor.... Pierce had his way with him all night long, scoring 20 points on 10 shots.

    I truly believe that Prince has always been our "X-Factor" and he is the primary reason the Pistons have not advanced past the ECF in each of the last 3 years. The bigger the stage, the worse he gets. Take a look at his playoff numbers..

    2006:

    First and second round stats

    16.6 PPG, 5.4 REB, 3.1 APG, 47% FG, 82% FT, 50% 3 PT

    ECF vs. Heat

    16.1 PPG, 6.1 REB, 2.7 APG, 44% FG, 84% FT, 39% 3 PT

    2007:
    First and second rount stats

    17.3 PPG, 6.6 REB, 3.3 APG, 50% FG, 70% FT, 50% 3 PT

    ECF vs. Cavs

    8.6 PPG, 6.1 REB, 4.5 APG, 24% FG, 75% FT, 17% 3 PT

    2008:
    First and second round stats

    16 PPG, 6 REB, 3.3 APG, 56% FG, 77% FT, 33% FT

    ECF vs. Celtics

    9.8 PPG, 4.3 REB, 3 APG, 32% FG, 83% FT, 30% 3 PT

    As you can clearly see, Prince has been a miserable failure offensively each of the past 3 ECF's. Of course, he wasn't exactly shutting down his primary offensive player.

    2006 Wade: 26.7 PPG, 5.1 REB, 5.5 APG, 62% FG
    2007 LeBron: 25.6 PPG, 9 REB, 8.5 APG, 45% FG
    2008 Pierce: 19.6 PPG, 5.8 REB, 3.8 APG, 49.3% FG

    Tonight certainly wasn't a "big game" in the grand scheme of things, but you can tell it meant something to both teams for a regular season game.... they were both going at it, playing very physical. But the point remains.... Prince is a no-show in big games.
  2. The Palace Artest

    The Palace Artest First Round Draft Pick

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    Staight up, this is Tay against Bron and Pierce in general.

    1) He tires himself out on defense just trying to stay in front of these guys. All game. He kills himself just to even slightly contain them.

    2) However, he bails out Pierce/Bron when its their turn to guard him, because Tay is too slow to get by them, and too weak to physically tire them. So he basically just pump fakes (lol), stands there, wastes a good 11 seconds off the shot clock, and heaves up an ugly ass left-hander which doinks off the rim.
  3. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Good analysis by 2tough and good analogy by TPA...

    On NBA TV the other night, I think Steve Smith said that the Pistons offense needed to be run thru Tay..:confused:...the problem is if Tay brings the ball up the court he wastes about as much time as Stuckey. The other issue is if he receives the ball to the right of the hoop with less than 12 seconds, he still dribbles for 8 seconds and then has to rush or take a bad shot. So I have to disagree partly with Steve Smith somewhat, but Tay does need to take more than 8 shots a game to be effective and most need to drives to the hoop.

    Maybe tay was upset tonight because he wasn't named as a reserve on the allstar team:granade:
  4. Jewelz0376

    Jewelz0376 First Round Draft Pick

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    Well in Prince'defense I would say that the 06 Ecf's he played well 16 & 6 with 40% from 3 and 45% from the field is good...as far the other two are concerned...You want to get on him for not shutting down Lebron or Pierce??come on thats crzy....Lebron and Pierce were arguably playing the best of any player in both of those postseasons..That's asking alot for him to have to shutdown Lebron and Pierce AND have great games on the offense ends too...only the truly elite players can do that...

    Not to mention players of that caliber are not shutdown by 1 person...it takes a team to shutdown guys like Pierce and Lebron...Lebron probably more so than any other wing in nba history...so you can blame the whole team just as much as you do Prince for Pierce and Lebron going off...

    Prince imo is a little like Sheed...he has the talent to be a superstar in this league but he just isn't consistent enough and doesn't seem to have the drive to be the best...To me Prince is one of those guys thats a good player but just a notch below being an allstar..but he's the type of guy that EVERY championship team needs and wants...if Dumars came out and said he were open to trade Prince in the offseason EVERY elite team would be trying to pick up this guy...(lakers fans would probably kill to have him instead of Odom lol)...

    As far as lasts nights game the only problem I have is the 1 rebound...Everyone has bad shooting nights and thats fine but he could've made up for that by getting more than 1 rebound...AI and Stuck both outboarded him for crying out loud....its obvious that sometimes we get killed on the boards without Dice in there so you would think Prince would make more of an effort to get more boards but he doesnt...He's 6'9 with a 7 foot wingspan...has huge hands and good hands on top of that...he should be pulling down 8+ boards every night..
  5. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    Yeah, Prince is not a very good rebounder for his size, and although he does have an increased average this year, that is probably due more to him playing the PF a lot than he ever has before. But Sheed is easily the worst rebounder on this team for his size and length.... he's never even averaged 9 boards for a single season. He ought to be able to do that in his sleep.
  6. Pistons Lover

    Pistons Lover First Round Draft Pick

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    Maybe this is why he doesn't get any pull for the All Star game? :noidea:
  7. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Prince should have been developed as a spot up shooter/three baller. He could be a force just in that role.

    His post game is fool's gold. It is too slow and has and will be shut down in the later rounds.

    Tay has gone from an emerging shooter to a pump faker.

    It is all the more obvious now without Billips. The Pistons have no one who is a threat to spread the floor other than Sheed. The offense sometimes barely resembles an NBA-style offense. The good teams pack the lane and the Pistons cannot make an adjustment because the personnel is not there to make it.
  8. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    Good post and I agree with everything you say.

    Prince's post game would be a bit more successful if he ever got good position when he starts his move..... but the Pistons tend to run his isolation post ups off of pick and rolls (when the other teams switches) and he is always a good 12-15 feet away from the basket.
    Even if he has a big size advantage, it's pretty easy for teams to clog up the lane and force Prince to either pass out to guys who cant shoot... or he ends up taking an ill-advised contested jumper over multiple defenders.
  9. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    :nod:

    However, i think it's just Rip. We should trade him. Tay could totally put up the numbers if he didn't have to deal with deferring to Rip. <i couldn't resist>
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    The stage wasn't very big last night (clearly a smaller stage than the 1st and 2nd round of the playoffs) and he was terrible. So, maybe it isn't the pressure getting to him, it is just that he's not as good against great defensive teams.
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    The force is strong in you, but if you cannot control it, then you will succumb to the dark side.
  12. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    I wouldn't call the 2006 Heat a "great" defensive team.... then again Prince was still pretty effective scoring-wise in that series. His defense on Wade was pretty horrid though.

    Prince lit up Loul Deng and the 07 Bulls in the second round, and they were ranked first or second in the league in defense that year.
  13. Krowe

    Krowe First Round Draft Pick

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    How bout you go guard Wade, Pierce, or LeBron and then try to plat some offense. Its ALOT HARDER THAN YOU THINK.
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    They had the best defense in the playoffs that year when adjusting for pace of play.
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I'm a bad boys fan.

    Wade, Pierce or LeBron would only drive on me once.

    Of course, with the current rules, I would probably be suspended for life. But they would only drive on me once. :)
  16. The Palace Artest

    The Palace Artest First Round Draft Pick

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    somebody needs to find that pictured of Tayshaun ducking for cover. Yeah, that moment, in that game, in that series.
  17. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    That's hardly the point buddy. Read my entire post and then come back with a thoughtful response next time. :help:
  18. max

    max All-Star

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    Yes Prince has sucked the past couple of ECF's - no way to sugar coat that. But he was not jacking up 3's in crunch-time or not following the play because he disagreed with the coach. In short - his play hurt us but it did not kill us.

    He is a nice all-around player at a good price who the argument of playing too many mins may apply to.
  19. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    He may have struggled in the ECF the last couple of years, but I remeber him playing huge in the second rounds. Maybe excellent defensive teams (Heat, Celtics) made an effort to shut him down.
  20. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    During the Cleveland game, it looked like Rip's defense bothered LeBron more than Prince's did.

    Prince could become a good offensive weapon if used properly. There was a stretch where he was being guarded by Pavlovic and they posted him up I think twice and then stopped. Someone of his size & ability should've scored on Sasha every posession especially since they weren't double-teaming him. That sort of mismatch should be one that we exploit to the point where Cleveland has to make and adjustment or take a TO.

    I think he misses Chauncey more than Rip.

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