The Carlos Delfino project

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by mercury, Dec 17, 2006.

  1. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Re: The Delfino project

    Or that rookies and players without any NBA experience are held to a different standard than a four year vet who played in all 82 for Seattle one year and 76 games for Cleveland last year. Flip isn't exactly my favorite player either (nor my favorite coach for that matter), but Joe D did bring him in based on how he saw him playing over the past couple of years. And that earns him some leeway.

    As for Delfino, I do agree that he is strongest right now (and maybe forever) at defense, rebounding, moving the ball, etc. and not at scoring. However, that he was been put into the game in crunch time the last couple because the coaching staff trusts him to play strong defense and not make mistakes with the ball seems like some real progress.
  2. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Re: The Delfino project

    I've figured out what this team is missing.................DARVIN HAM!!!!!! Darvin would solve so many problems for this team it ain't even funny. Think how hard he would push Delfino in practice, think how physical he would play, and toughen up McDyess and Nazr. Delfino would benefit so much from Darvin on the team. One thing Darvin does and does well and that's expose somebody's heart or the lack therof. Could you imagine a battle between Darvin and Maxiell in practice, and Darvin just loves being on the team. Ham Slamwhich knows that his role is to keep his team hyped up, toughened up, and battle test them in practice so that they're ready to give a tough effort.
  3. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Re: The Delfino project

    How about the fastbreak with Blaylock to distribute, and Ham and Maxiell to finish. :cheerleader:
  4. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    Re: The Delfino project

    The only thing missing on this team is more consistent playing time. The more the bench can get in games with each other and get acclimated to how each other plays; the better they will be. Part of it is NBA experience but part of it is also chemistry. The more time these guys spend on the floor with the guys they are "typically" going to be playing with; the better they will become as a unit and a team.

    Not only are some of these guys getting their first NBA experience but also are playing ball with guys they don't really know. Our starters have been playing together for years. The bench needs to have time to gel as a unit.

    Eventually you need to find the guys who fit together the best as a team. That may not be the guys with the most experience. In my opinion; that is why Murray does not fit this team. The second unit needs guys that make each other better as a unit to succeed. That is not Murray.

    Delfino makes his teammates better and by doing that he will become better himself. As they adjust to each others tendencies they will look better individually.

    In order for him to improve he needs to spend time on the floor with the starters. This will give him confidence to do the things he knows how to do and improve on the the things he isn't doing so well (shooting) without it being magnified by wins and losses. As the bench players get more acquainted with the NBA game with the starters; they can start to put them on the floor together as a second unit and give them time to gel.

    I see no reason that we can't roll with a second unit of Blalock, Delfino, JMax, Davis and Dice, if we had to, once they get some NBA game time under their belts and some time together on the floor.
  5. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Re: The Delfino project

    I think an interesting issue is whether a player like Delfino (or any of the others for that matter) gets better faster by playing with a solid second unit (solid in the sense that they would also practice together) or by playing with a mix of starters and bench.

    Is there a conventional way of thinking about this? Does it vary entirely by who the players are?
  6. Terry T

    Terry T First Round Draft Pick

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    Re: The Delfino project

    Excellent post. The Blalock, Delfino, JMax, and Davis unit has already shown good chemistry especially when Rip was in with them. They have a good mix of perimeter and inside skills, I think that if you add any of our perimeter scorers(Chauncey, Rip or Tay) to the mix and you will have a strong team on the floor.
    Flip Murray doesn't seem to be able to get into the flow of team basketball, it seems that he just wants room to go off the dribble for a spinning jumper. I would rather see Delfino get his minutes, this would allow him to play his natural position of guard. If you want to see more scoring from Delfino I think you are going to have to move him to guard and let him handle the ball and create off the high pick and roll. And stop calling Rip's coming off the double screen, catch and shoot play for Delfino, by my count he is 0-7 converting that play.
  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Re: The Delfino project

    Indeed. There are two kinds of players. The ones who can run the screen game (Reggie Miller, Kobe Bryant, Rip Hamilton, Ray Allen, Michael Redd) and those who cannot (most of the remaining SGs in the NBA). It's pointless to pound a square peg in a round hole. The "playbook" is supposed to be deeper than that.
  8. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    Re: The Delfino project

    Delfino is a slasher and spot up shooter. The problem is that with the j not falling he has no room to drive. Flip needs to find a play for him and run it consistently when he is in the game. Allow him to find a comfort zone and expand from there. The other option is for his teammates to look for him. When he is in with Murray that doesn't happen. Would like to see Blalock drive and dish to set him up for a few easy buckets. Or even Tay across the lane to set him up.

    I just hope Flip (when he finally realizes Murray's weaknesses) gives Delfino ample opportunity to improve before our play off run.
  9. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Re: The Delfino project

    Actually I believe that there is also what is known as the "screen and pop". That used to be a play that the Bad Boys used an awfully lot. They would mix it with the screen and roll depending on the situation and player mix that was on the floor and at the time as well as who had the hot hand at any given moment

    :hoops::hoops:
  10. hack

    hack First Round Draft Pick

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    Re: The Delfino project

    They ran it to death last year with Sheed fading for the 3. Sheed faded so much the defense didn't have to respect the possiblity of a roll. And then Chauncey proved he couldn't get past Sheed's man, a la when guys like Varejao had him pinned at the top of the key in the second round and nothing good happened. That's a dead play come playoffs time. We need more from Flip's playbook than that play and a curl for Rip.
  11. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Re: The Delfino project

    If you go to NBA.com and look under stats, there is a new section called "hot zones". I can't tell if it is updated, but it is interesting to see how each player shoots from different areas of the floor. The interesting thing about Delfino is how many shots he takes at point blank range. He gets the hoop a lot.
  12. jzchen

    jzchen Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Re: The Delfino project

    Flip's playbook are only meant for his 'lovers'....
  13. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Re: The Delfino project

    Just wanted to add an observation. Most agree, Delfino is much better on defense vs. Murray. But look at the 4th quarter of the NJ game. Delfino gave us 7 points early 4th. He made 3 of 4 at the line. He got that save and dish under the basket to Murray. Murray missed, so no assist for Delfino. But Murray was right under the basket, so got his own rebound and put it in. Still 2 points for the team even though no credited assist. Also, Delfino got the ball to Blalock, who was fouled to stop a layup. No assist. But Blalock made 2 of 2. Another 2 points for the team.
  14. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Re: The Delfino project

    You know, part of earning an assist is getting the ball to the player in a position where they can make the shot. If they get blocked, or fouled, or don't make the shot... no assist.
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Re: The Delfino project

    Lee, all those Delfino intangibles don't seem to show up in the +/-. We're-3.6 with him and +3.9 without him. The only one's on the team that are worse are Dice and Hunter (I won't count Dupree since he's only played for 1 second). Flip Murray is almost as bad (-2.1 with and +4.6 without).

    They are both struggling. Of course, they both do things well and they both do things that they don't get credit for... but so do most players.
  16. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Re: The Delfino project

    Getting fouled on a potential assist pass is a bit of a flaw in the system. A good remedy would be to give .5 assists to the passer for each free throw the player makes, with the caveat that you can never get more than 1.0 assist per play.

    This would reward the passer for giving the ball to players who can make free throws. But, it won't happen anytime soon because it would change the ability to compare players to past players.
  17. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    Re: The Delfino project

    I have often thought that Delfino's +/- numbers didn't add up. It seems like he was consistently making the right pass to set up his teammates but the numbers didn't show it. Now that I think about it, Maxey gets blocked or fouled alot. Delfino makes a conscious effort to get him the ball when he is on the block. Those are set ups under the hoop with no credit.
  18. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Re: The Delfino project

    Stats can be misleading. Remember, just about all the time Delfino is on the floor so far this season, so is Flip Murray. Much of time, so was Hunter. Delfino has played without these guys, more and more just of late, but it still is a very insignificant amount compared to the time with them.
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Re: The Delfino project

    It is true that when Carlos is on the floor, Murray usually is too... only about 25% of the top 10 a 5-man combos with Delfino are without Murray or Hunter.

    However, the ones where they do play together seem to be the most productive stints. Of those top 10 combos (time-wise) involving CD, Carlos is +31 when he plays with Flip Murray.

    I would need to see data from all of the combos that CD is involved in to know whether or not Flip is really dragging him down. From the available info, it appears as though Murray is giving him a boost.

    Since Carlos has only played 28% of the total minutes this year, I think that it may be over reaching to draw conclusions yet. Also, he has been inserted as a sort of utility man and ends up playing with a lot of different combinations. So it is possible that he hasn't been fully integrated into a unit yet.
  20. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    Re: The Delfino project

    That's probably because those guys play together much of the time. Murray and Dice's +/- numbers are slightly better than the other bench players (despite crap play) because they get the most minutes with the starters (especially with Rip and Lindsey being in and out of the lineup early in the season). You have to take all of those things into account when looking at those kinds of stats.

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