The Darko Milicic- Thread

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by TWOTIMESRALPHI, Dec 18, 2005.

  1. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    darko could of gotten pt under lb, and i'm not kidding around. if darko proved to lb he could play larry would have to give him pt. look at knicks rookie channing frye larry hates playing rookies, but he's forced to play him since he plays good. flip wants to win every game, and the only way darko can get more pt is by showing flip he can help win him games.
  2. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    the problem with that question is you assume darko has been given clear guidelines on what is expected of him. i have seen darko come in and shut the paint down against starters. that didn't earn him any minutes. flip and lb were very vague about what earning minutes actually consists of.

    i haven't seen mcdyess, evans, dale davis, and the year before him darvin ham dominate a second unit. dwight howard, or villanueva aren't behind 3 or 4 former all stars. both of them have been playing major minutes the last 2 years. simply different situations.

    darko isn't good enough right now to be on the floor instead of mcdyess, ben wallace and rasheed wallace. he has to be given minutes for development. nobody in the league has ever had to come in and be better than 3 all stars to get minutes. darko has always came in with defensive intensity people simply don't score or it's more difficult when darko gets in the game. that should leave him in the game. the problem is he doesn't have to look like a guy that hasn't played in 2 years. he has to look like a 3rd year player who had 4 years of college under his belt to get minutes.

    i've already said darko doesn't fit with the pistons right now. darko is the future. it's ben's, sheeds and mcdyess time right now. darko is going to step in when those guys start declining or asking for too much money.
  3. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    lb is forced to play him since there are no other alternatives. frye doesn't have ben wallace, sheed, mcdyess, elden in front of him. he has jerome james and curry which i would say is a different class of player.

    look at how lb treated lebron, wade and melo at the olympics. lb will play his vets if given the choice. look at darvin ham over dupree and delfino last year. lb will play a vet over a good young player any day.
  4. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    i think you could argue that mcdyess dominated a second unit last year, given that he played as well as a starter and got some amount of consideration for 6th man of the year, while dale davis was a starter on a playoff team that got to the 2nd round last year (indiana) and took us pistons to 6 games. the pistons want to win NOW and secure that homecourt while other teams are having issues (indiana, miami) or having a couple more losses more frequently than the pistons (dallas, san antonio). the simple fact is that darko does not give us a better chance than mcdyess or davis right now.

    the kid is still only 20 years old, and last summer / preseason was the first real chance he had to show his stuff, and he did a pretty decent job. this is really only his 2nd year (even though technically it's his 3rd), so I'm still not going to pass judgment on what he can become (lookat jermaine o'neal).

    i used too many parentheses in this post :D darko is not playing with the same confidence and intensity that he did in the summer and preseason though, and that's pretty plain to see.
  5. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    well flip is here now, and if darko is still not playing then there has to be something that darko does (or doesn't) do that flip and the rest of the team sees, but we can't.
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Probably the most astute observation that will come from this thread.
  7. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    My guess - and this is just a guess - is that they've earned it in practice.

    Everyone has bad stretches, but I can't think of a time when I've seen either Dice or Mo coasting. There shots may not always drop, but those guys give 100% effort all the time. They sustain their efforts. Darko is very inconsistent with his. I think that's the most frustrating part about it. I don't think anyone really doubts his ability, its his desire and heart that are the big question marks.

    I'm not a Darko basher or a Darko fan. I'm a Pistons fan that wants to see the team do well. I'd also like to see us get something from our #2 overall pick. But if we can't get something from him, we better get something for him and move on.

    Yes he was very young when he was drafted, and is still young. Yes he has had to leave his family, come into a foreign country and learn a completely new culture. Yes he had a coach known for not playing his youngsters. I get all that, and I'm not downplaying these factors. But when is enough, enough??

    Darko tempts us with his "potential" and every once in a while he teases us with spurts of imspired play. But in my opinion, you can't reward spurts. You have to reward consistent effort. Guys who battle until the final buzzer. Garbage time or not.

    There are 4 different types of players in the NBA.

    Guys who have loads of talent and work hard. (KG, Lebron, Wade, etc.)

    Guys who have loads of talent and coast. (Vince Carter, McGrady, etc.)

    Guys who don't have top shelf talent but compensate with their work ethic. (Big Ben, JYD, Ratliff, Darvin Ham, etc.)
    Guys that have no business being in the NBA (Matt Bonner) :laugh:

    Where does Darko fit in? Honestly, at this point I'm starting not to care as much where he fits in, but more when we'll finally know so that we can move on one way or another.
  8. JKP

    JKP Second Round Draft Pick

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    LanierFan

    You know, I was thinking the same thing when I read that story.
    Interesting ?!
  9. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    i agree with you that mcdyess and davis are both high caliber players. they are getting thier minutes based on what they did in the past not on the production they are bringing to the team right now. i only bring them up to point out that playing time is not purely based on how hard you play or the results you get on the court.

    i do however disagree on whether darko gives us a better chance than mcdyess or davis. i would say the development of darko definitely would give us a better chance than davis. darko brings a better offensive player than davis and also is quite good defensively. mcdyess by the time playoffs are here will be just as important as sheed and ben. but i give darko the edge defensively over mcdyess against the likes of shaq and duncan in limited minutes.

    i agree darko has lost a bit of confidence. in preseason he was coming in and being a dominant defensive force. flip should have carried this over into the regular season. instead he cut darko's minutes right away and chipped away at them until it's back to garbage time.

    ben wallace is still here, mcdyess is still here, rasheed wallace is still here and now dale davis is here. that's what most of the fans don't see when they wonder why darko isn't playing and they think it's solely because of his play.

    i've only seen darko coast during garbage time. mo evans, jmax, arroyo don't seem to coast in garbage time because they are trying to pad stats and score a highlight dunk in my opinion. during meaningful minutes i see nothing but effort from darko. trying to block every shot, stepping out on pick and rolls and getting back in time. he is more passive on offense but i think that's simply because the second unit offense is ran through mcdyess and darko defers to him.

    well i think darko has loads of talent. i think the guys you mention have had plenty of oppurtunity to pick which one they are. darko is getting the message from his organization that hard work doesn't pay off with playing time and neither does talent. i understand why he's confused and just playing out there.

    i also agree we need to put darko on the floor and see what we have. i think darko playing might cause more chemistry issues than him not playing. darko given 20 minutes a night will put up a huge block number and better points than ben. so then it becomes an issue of whose minutes to you take away to give darko minutes. because the consistent 8 - 10 minutes flip should have been giving darko right from the start of the season wouldn't be enough anymore.
  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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  11. BigDaddy

    BigDaddy First Round Draft Pick

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    OK I'll agree he was more or less shafted as far as getting no PT or not the same chances other lottery picks get.But he needs to realize the situation is different he has a ring and a belt.He needs to put forth more effort I would love to see him flourish on this team not another.

    Him wanting what the other lottery picks were given isn't going to happen so grow up and roll with the situation to be evrything this team sees he is in practice out in real gametime.I really thought he played with more energy last game btw so hopefully that turns into something not just a flash.
  12. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    i agree he does need to adjust to this situation. he isn't going to get the things the other picks got. so the organization shouldn't expect to get the kind of production and happy young player that other organizations get. both sides need to be understanding that this is a tough situation for a young guy to go through. he's 20 years old so i'm sure he still wonders why they get things that he doesn't.

    i agree last game he played with some energy compared to his other garbage time performances. i still think he has another notch of intensity that he can go to that i've seen him play during meaningful minutes. i just hope his play and increased energy is rewarded. you can't punish the guy with a dnpcd and then think the energy will still be there the next time you happen to decide to put him during garbage time.
  13. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    bball jay

    darko might score more points per night, but he shoots a better percentage from the field because he knows others are stronger than him in scoring so he does it off hustle while darko throws up 20 footers.
  14. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    actually ben shoots a better percentage from the field because he gets wide open shots because he plays with the starters. he also gets wide open shots because his man basically plays zone off of him. i think darko's percentage would be much different if he had cb, rip, tay and sheed setting him up.

    darko shoots 20 footers because that's what the defense gives him. he doesn't just drive it in anyway and throw up some mess and yell "oh" like ben does. no matter how ben does it darko is a superior offensive player.
  15. max

    max All-Star

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    Darko

    If Darko wants respect from the fans he will have to earn it.

    I don't care how much natural talent he has until it starts translating onto the court its means nothing.

    Is zero hour for Darko if he wants to remain a Piston.
  16. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    one game

    You guys are forgetting what caused all this. NY. A game where Darko appeared to be quite nervous. Oh well, thats one game maybe I will concede Darko did poorly in. If Flip is sitting Darko for that, its a bit severe. This last game where Darko was said not to be giving effort, that was just first impressions. Anyone who botheres checking over the tape would see Darko was doing plenty in the Chicago game in the way of effort.

    Next problem with some people's posts here. They are forgetting that Dale Davis has hardly had any minutes at all compared to Darko. And Maxiell has yet to get one single meaningful minute.

    Lets focus on Maxiell. Lets say some people have the theory that good effort in garbage time, regardless of results (cause face it, look at the numbers, Maxiell is making a ton of rookie mistakes and dragging the team down whenever he plays) then why does not Maxiell have a single minute of real game time yet. You know, like when the game is not already decided.

    I listened to what Flip said. He did mention effort. But he said a guy has to produce to earn minutes. Maxiell has not produced. Darko on the other hand led the NBA in blocks in the preseason.

    See this last game. Assist. Dunk. Block. All in a minute from Darko. Thats production. Did I mention the knockaway. Did I mention a guard tried to dribble around Darko and ended up turning the ball over. Did I mention Darko charging out to the perimeter and making a guy miss. All in a very short time of play. That is production. Lets see if Flip now holds to his word and puts Darko into the rotation a bit tonight.
  17. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    It was the straw that broke the camels back.

    Darko is allowed a few bad games just like everyone else. The problem is the bad far outweighs any good he has displayed.

    It's cool that you remain in his corner Lee. Fewer people are there each day as it becomes increasingly apparent he is not likely to succeed in a Detroit uniform.

    Maybe in an Atlanta, but that remains to be seen.

    At some point Darko and his followers are going to need to accept responsibility for what he is doing and quit blaming others. The problem with the Darko supporters side of the debate is that you guys don't talk about what is happening on the court with him. You focus on "WHY" it is happening. Start focusing on the "WHAT" and if you have something valid to say, you may be able to sway people to your "side". But by then it will be a moot point, because if people see Darko doing well they will be the first ones to gladly admit they were wrong.
  18. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Boy, I just gotta stop coming in here and reading this. I know whats up. I know the arguements. I've seen the tape...

    I guess I just need some sort of winter hobby. Maybe Ice fishing. It always looks cold and miserable, but I bet it might be better than "debating" about Darko.
  19. TBird

    TBird First Round Draft Pick

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  20. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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